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Contrary point of view: Extraordinary circumstances allowed you to stay remote during a pandemic. Now that it's over, it's fair and expected that they want you

by ctvo 3y ago

Contrary point of view: Extraordinary circumstances allowed you to stay remote during a pandemic. Now that it's over, it's fair and expected that they want you to come into the office. Your original contract with them was you being an in-office employee. There is nothing wrong with them aligning on promotions being tied to you fulfilling your obligations. If this is all too much, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from leaving and finding a truly remote workplace. (Disclaimer: I understand some people were hired as remote, told they'd remain remote, and are now being forced to come to the office or relocate. That sucks, and I'm sorry it's happening).

bluefirebrand 3y ago
Your contract is worth the price of the paper it's written on. You can bet that trying to get your employer to abide by the terms written on it will be impossible if they decide they don't like what they originally agreed to. You even mention such cases where people signed a remote-only contract which employers are now using intimidation tactics to get you to ignore. Since employers are so brazenly treating contracts as being non binding, why should employees? Basically: it is far past time that employees started using our own muscle to get the clowns in charge to behave. Refuse to go back to offices.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > Your contract is worth the price of the paper it's written on. Contracts are generally worth more than that, because they give you a basis on which you can successfully sue. However, that means that a contract's value depends on what you're willing and able to do to enforce it.
  - bluefirebrand 3y ago
    Very few people have the resources to successfully sue their employer. Even if you did have the resources, do you want your name to show up on every Google search as "the guy who sued his last employer" when you're job hunting? There is a lot of social pressure for people to just shut up and take whatever their bosses give them.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      > Very few people have the resources to successfully sue their employer. In general, sure (although in most US states you can get lots of assistance), but in the HN crowd? I expect that the majority of people here make good money and can afford to do this. > do you want your name to show up on every Google search as "the guy who sued his last employer" when you're job hunting? Why not? Most employers aren't going to be searching for such lawsuits in the first place, and it's not likely to hurt you with the ones that do (unless they're shady, in which case -- bullet dodged). > There is a lot of social pressure for people Absolutely true, but it's still a choice the employee is making. My point is that a contract does have value beyond the paper its printed on, but the enforcement of it is up to the parties who signed the contract. Choosing not to enforce a contract you're a part of doesn't mean the value isn't there, it means you're opting not to make use of that value.
    - mikestew 3y ago
      Very few people have the resources to successfully sue their employer. Amazon office workers generally do. As for the Google search, I’ve been a hiring manager in the past, and usually part of an interview team at any company I’ve worked at for the last 20 years, and I’ve never heard of such a thing. Maybe it shows up in a background check, who knows. But I would think it would have come up at least once. Regardless, the contract is obviously worth more than the paper, as you’ve already pointed out. We are just arguing about the consequences.
paulddraper 3y ago
Agreed, except contract or not it doesn't matter. Imagine an employer telling you "hey, you can't get a new job we have a '''contract''' with you" You'd tell them to get f---ed Now imagine a layoff or org restructuring. If you think either employer or employee is making eternal promises, you're dumb.
- ctvo 3y ago
  Employment is at-will for both parties in the US. You can break your employment agreement (contract) as a salary worker at anytime. The contract is: Do what we ask and we continue to pay you a salary. We're asking you to come into the office a few days a week.

by ctvo 3y ago

bluefirebrand 3y ago

Your contract is worth the price of the paper it's written on. You can bet that trying to get your employer to abide by the terms written on it will be impossible if they decide they don't like what they originally agreed to. You even mention such cases where people signed a remote-only contract which employers are now using intimidation tactics to get you to ignore. Since employers are so brazenly treating contracts as being non binding, why should employees? Basically: it is far past time that employees started using our own muscle to get the clowns in charge to behave. Refuse to go back to offices.

JohnFen 3y ago
> Your contract is worth the price of the paper it's written on. Contracts are generally worth more than that, because they give you a basis on which you can successfully sue. However, that means that a contract's value depends on what you're willing and able to do to enforce it.
- bluefirebrand 3y ago
  Very few people have the resources to successfully sue their employer. Even if you did have the resources, do you want your name to show up on every Google search as "the guy who sued his last employer" when you're job hunting? There is a lot of social pressure for people to just shut up and take whatever their bosses give them.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    > Very few people have the resources to successfully sue their employer. In general, sure (although in most US states you can get lots of assistance), but in the HN crowd? I expect that the majority of people here make good money and can afford to do this. > do you want your name to show up on every Google search as "the guy who sued his last employer" when you're job hunting? Why not? Most employers aren't going to be searching for such lawsuits in the first place, and it's not likely to hurt you with the ones that do (unless they're shady, in which case -- bullet dodged). > There is a lot of social pressure for people Absolutely true, but it's still a choice the employee is making. My point is that a contract does have value beyond the paper its printed on, but the enforcement of it is up to the parties who signed the contract. Choosing not to enforce a contract you're a part of doesn't mean the value isn't there, it means you're opting not to make use of that value.
  - mikestew 3y ago
    Very few people have the resources to successfully sue their employer. Amazon office workers generally do. As for the Google search, I’ve been a hiring manager in the past, and usually part of an interview team at any company I’ve worked at for the last 20 years, and I’ve never heard of such a thing. Maybe it shows up in a background check, who knows. But I would think it would have come up at least once. Regardless, the contract is obviously worth more than the paper, as you’ve already pointed out. We are just arguing about the consequences.

paulddraper 3y ago

Agreed, except contract or not it doesn't matter. Imagine an employer telling you "hey, you can't get a new job we have a '''contract''' with you" You'd tell them to get f---ed Now imagine a layoff or org restructuring. If you think either employer or employee is making eternal promises, you're dumb.

ctvo 3y ago
Employment is at-will for both parties in the US. You can break your employment agreement (contract) as a salary worker at anytime. The contract is: Do what we ask and we continue to pay you a salary. We're asking you to come into the office a few days a week.