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> So android isn’t cool with teenagers, but it’s mostly because Android devices just suck now. You may be right about Android phones sucking more than they use

> So android isn’t cool with teenagers, but it’s mostly because Android devices just suck now. You may be right about Android phones sucking more than they used to regarding replaceability, customizability, rootability, etc., but I don't think that's why Android isn't cool. I think it's because teenagers that have iPhones make fun of people who show up with green colored text bubbles in their texts, and make fun of Android as something for poor people.

askonomm 3y ago
That, and convenience. Android simply can't provide the same coherent, seamless ecosystem of experiences that Apple can. People can't be bothered to deal with the annoyances of separate systems from separate providers anymore, and I feel that, especially in HN circles, that's a very undervalued thing.
- calciphus 3y ago
  If that were true why is Apple laptop / desktop market share not 50% in the US like phones are? For most iPhone users, the iPhone is their only Apple device. Maybe a few have an iPad (about one in 30 or so), but that's it. Most don't have a Mac, HomePod, etc, and so the "seamless ecosystem" is not a factor. Talk to any teenager or young adult. It really is the green bubbles.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >If that were true why is Apple laptop / desktop market share not 50% in the US like phones are? People care less about their computers/PCs. That market has peaked over 10 years ago and has been on the decline ever since, minus the temporary pandemic peak, while they are far more emotionally attached to their computer in their pocket (their phone) rather than the computer sitting on the desk at home. Plus, computers being more open means you can do most of the stuff on a PC that you can do on a PC, it's very little you can gatekeep in that market software wise. So Apple has "fixed" that "mistake" and not allow the iPhone to be nearly as open as Macs were, therefore more easily gatekeep features valuable for social interactions and keep customers tied.
  - neogodless 3y ago
    No, I think it's still true. As another commenter said, teens might be into PC gaming, so they have to buy a PC to guarantee they can play all the games their friends play. But those same kids will have an iPhone, Watch and Airpods which also let you show off very visibly that you're in the Apple ecosystem when you're in public.
discardedrefuse 3y ago
Its not so much that they're making fun of the poors. It's that green bubbles break the group chat, so Android users are usually excluded from them. And this is 100% by design. Apple could support RCS (the SMS replacement introduced in 2007) or just release an iMessage app for Android. But they have chosen not to in order to alienate Android users from their iOS contacts and create pressure for Android users to switch for the most petty reasons. I say fuck all that noise. The correct response to this behavior is to switch to Telegram or Whatsapp or whatever and just be free of vendor lock in for something as basic as messaging.
- joshmanders 3y ago
  > Apple could support RCS (the SMS replacement introduced in 2007) or just release an iMessage app for Android. But they have chosen not to in order to alienate Android users from their iOS contacts and create pressure for Android users to switch for the most petty reasons. I never understood why everyone thinks that it's on Apple to open up their ecosystem and allow inferior devices to use their services that are offered for free to their customers because they're better. Nobody expects KFC to share their secret blend of herbs and spices with other fast food restaurants because people prefer KFC over them... If you want to beat Apple, then you need to provide something better, not think you get their cake too.
  - calciphus 3y ago
    Because interoperable communication systems are supposed to be core to getting to use all that government-allocated public infrastructure (like phone networks, wireless spectrum, etc). That Apple intentionally degrades the experience for interacting with non-customers is "malicious compliance". Only implementing the oldest standard at the minimal level is worthy of ridicule. If AT&T started introducing delays, message duplication, degrading image and video quality, etc whenever you messaged a non-AT&T customer, HN would be up in arms. But because the world's most valuable company does it they get a pass? I don't care if Apple let's me use iMessage. I care that they won't implement RCS or let users change the messaging protocol handler on their phone purely for anticompetitive reasons.
tuxxi 3y ago
Yea, that’s a big factor in the “coolness”. But IMHO the root cause of this in/out group mentality is a feedback loop: * android phones offer fewer meaningfully distinct features (or as another commenter said, apple catches up) * people don’t see value in android due to lack of distinct features in flagship phones * majority of android becomes cheaper models * iPhone market share increases among rich and influential teens Just my 2c :)
- jwells89 3y ago
  A big part of the appeal of Android stuff back in the early days was definitely the gee-whiz factor with whacky features. The wide variety of manufacturers (and thus, designs) also played a big part, since it made phone choice more about which design and featureset suited you personally. Fast forward to today, and phones have homogenized into roughly the same featureset, with “gee-whiz” being limited to models with prices exceeding that of iPhones (e.g. foldables) and the number of manufacturers has dwindled down to a handful of giants that are all aping each other. That bit of appeal is gone, with the appeal that remains being dampened by Android’s mediocrity.
cykros 3y ago
Indeed -- never mind that a brand new Pixel or high end Samsung phone costs MORE than the equivalently new iPhone in many cases. In the 90s, kids rebelled against the system. In the '20s, kids just want the approval of it. When I was a kid, we'd have been fighting tooth and nail to get a Pinephone -- especially with some of that hardware you can add on to them.

askonomm 3y ago

That, and convenience. Android simply can't provide the same coherent, seamless ecosystem of experiences that Apple can. People can't be bothered to deal with the annoyances of separate systems from separate providers anymore, and I feel that, especially in HN circles, that's a very undervalued thing.

calciphus 3y ago
If that were true why is Apple laptop / desktop market share not 50% in the US like phones are? For most iPhone users, the iPhone is their only Apple device. Maybe a few have an iPad (about one in 30 or so), but that's it. Most don't have a Mac, HomePod, etc, and so the "seamless ecosystem" is not a factor. Talk to any teenager or young adult. It really is the green bubbles.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >If that were true why is Apple laptop / desktop market share not 50% in the US like phones are? People care less about their computers/PCs. That market has peaked over 10 years ago and has been on the decline ever since, minus the temporary pandemic peak, while they are far more emotionally attached to their computer in their pocket (their phone) rather than the computer sitting on the desk at home. Plus, computers being more open means you can do most of the stuff on a PC that you can do on a PC, it's very little you can gatekeep in that market software wise. So Apple has "fixed" that "mistake" and not allow the iPhone to be nearly as open as Macs were, therefore more easily gatekeep features valuable for social interactions and keep customers tied.
- neogodless 3y ago
  No, I think it's still true. As another commenter said, teens might be into PC gaming, so they have to buy a PC to guarantee they can play all the games their friends play. But those same kids will have an iPhone, Watch and Airpods which also let you show off very visibly that you're in the Apple ecosystem when you're in public.

discardedrefuse 3y ago

Its not so much that they're making fun of the poors. It's that green bubbles break the group chat, so Android users are usually excluded from them. And this is 100% by design. Apple could support RCS (the SMS replacement introduced in 2007) or just release an iMessage app for Android. But they have chosen not to in order to alienate Android users from their iOS contacts and create pressure for Android users to switch for the most petty reasons. I say fuck all that noise. The correct response to this behavior is to switch to Telegram or Whatsapp or whatever and just be free of vendor lock in for something as basic as messaging.

joshmanders 3y ago
> Apple could support RCS (the SMS replacement introduced in 2007) or just release an iMessage app for Android. But they have chosen not to in order to alienate Android users from their iOS contacts and create pressure for Android users to switch for the most petty reasons. I never understood why everyone thinks that it's on Apple to open up their ecosystem and allow inferior devices to use their services that are offered for free to their customers because they're better. Nobody expects KFC to share their secret blend of herbs and spices with other fast food restaurants because people prefer KFC over them... If you want to beat Apple, then you need to provide something better, not think you get their cake too.
- calciphus 3y ago
  Because interoperable communication systems are supposed to be core to getting to use all that government-allocated public infrastructure (like phone networks, wireless spectrum, etc). That Apple intentionally degrades the experience for interacting with non-customers is "malicious compliance". Only implementing the oldest standard at the minimal level is worthy of ridicule. If AT&T started introducing delays, message duplication, degrading image and video quality, etc whenever you messaged a non-AT&T customer, HN would be up in arms. But because the world's most valuable company does it they get a pass? I don't care if Apple let's me use iMessage. I care that they won't implement RCS or let users change the messaging protocol handler on their phone purely for anticompetitive reasons.

tuxxi 3y ago

Yea, that’s a big factor in the “coolness”. But IMHO the root cause of this in/out group mentality is a feedback loop: * android phones offer fewer meaningfully distinct features (or as another commenter said, apple catches up) * people don’t see value in android due to lack of distinct features in flagship phones * majority of android becomes cheaper models * iPhone market share increases among rich and influential teens Just my 2c :)

jwells89 3y ago
A big part of the appeal of Android stuff back in the early days was definitely the gee-whiz factor with whacky features. The wide variety of manufacturers (and thus, designs) also played a big part, since it made phone choice more about which design and featureset suited you personally. Fast forward to today, and phones have homogenized into roughly the same featureset, with “gee-whiz” being limited to models with prices exceeding that of iPhones (e.g. foldables) and the number of manufacturers has dwindled down to a handful of giants that are all aping each other. That bit of appeal is gone, with the appeal that remains being dampened by Android’s mediocrity.

cykros 3y ago

Indeed -- never mind that a brand new Pixel or high end Samsung phone costs MORE than the equivalently new iPhone in many cases. In the 90s, kids rebelled against the system. In the '20s, kids just want the approval of it. When I was a kid, we'd have been fighting tooth and nail to get a Pinephone -- especially with some of that hardware you can add on to them.