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Relying on a single company seems like bad news to me. Imagine if your car could only refuel at Chevron stations. I get it that other charging networks also ha

Relying on a single company seems like bad news to me. Imagine if your car could only refuel at Chevron stations. I get it that other charging networks also have the NACS connector. But if the argument is that they are unrealiable and people shouldn't bother, then Tesla will be the only game in town.

hn_version_0023 3y ago
Seriously, especially with Tesla! I'm imagining a scenario where this becomes the standard and then Elon decides to charge everyone $2.99 per-use or some such nonsense. That's entirely in-character for Mr. Musk.
- tokai 3y ago
  Or just block charging in a whole country because he got owned on twitter.
  - BlueTemplar 3y ago
    And then what, try to electrocute the law enforcement somehow when they come in to unblock it ?
- yardie 3y ago
  EVGo already charges a $3.99 session fee. I made the mistake of topping up a EV rental without reading the fine print. BTW, Tesla charges $12.99/mo for access to the SuperCharger network for non-Tesla brands. The $/kW rate is pretty competitive and just .05-.10 higher than the residential depending on time of day.
bryanlarsen 3y ago
Yes, that's why the NACS announcements are good for us Tesla owners. A lot of Tesla owners are worried about cars from other manufactures filling up Tesla charging stations. That's probably a valid concern, but I'm happy about the reduced reliance on Tesla.
- natch 3y ago
  Teslas aren’t limited to charging at superchargers. Saying there is a “reliance on Tesla” makes it sound like they are. That’s going to confuse or mislead some people, maybe not your intent, but it will. We already live in a world where Teslas can charge at any charger and (recent tentative changes aside) other cars can only charge at unreliable expensive non-Tesla chargers. It’s good that this is changing but the only way it’s good for Tesla owners is that money is going to be raining down to further build out the supercharger network.
  - clouddrover 3y ago
    > We already live in a world where ... other cars can only charge at unreliable expensive non-Tesla chargers. No, that's North America. Europe is different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ Although Tesla's V4 chargers still suck for 800 volt cars which is a shame. Tesla must try harder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJgThJtCR2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJgThJtCR2g
    - natch 3y ago
      Thanks, good reminder of something large I overlooked.
taylodl 3y ago
This gets at the core as to why I've not (yet) bought an EV - it's absolutely insane that my car purchase dictates the people I have to associate with for refueling. As you point out - I would never buy a car having the stipulation I could only refuel at Chevron stations. I'll stick with my dino juice so long as Tesla is the only viable option available for recharging. I'd think about getting an EV for a local commuter car where I can always charge at home, but they're still too expensive for that - though that should change as the used EV market becomes more developed and mature.
- Qwertious 3y ago
  The funny thing is that electrical charging isn't fully standardized, but somehow hydrocarbons are.
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    This should be true, new technology is less standardized than ancient tech.
  - dpkirchner 3y ago
    They probably wouldn't be standardized if they didn't have to be. IMO this is a regulatory failure.
  - djbusby 3y ago
    Gas and Oil didn't start off as standardized (nothing does) - got there over time. I'm sure EV will get there - eventually. Needs a standards group like ASTM maybe.
    - Schiendelman 3y ago
      We’re there already - everyone has adopted NACS. Interestingly, the standards group was the problem…
  - galangalalgol 3y ago
    They aren't really, it is just that modern engines are incredibly tolerant of what you put in them. Some survey found that the different octane tanks get mis-filled a large portion of the time with other octanes or higher ethanol ratings. Even within an octane rating what is in there varies a lot. The changes needed to make a four stroke work on propane is very small. And an old diesel engine will run on almost any liquid that will burn but not evaporate at stp. The cars will get smarter and be able to do better with different voltages at some point.
ajross 3y ago
This seems backwards. You're demanding that people use alternatives in the market because of competition. But competition is what we have, and the market is choosing winners and losers. So... you're demanding we use the losers' products. So they can compete? Which they... aren't?

hn_version_0023 3y ago

Seriously, especially with Tesla! I'm imagining a scenario where this becomes the standard and then Elon decides to charge everyone $2.99 per-use or some such nonsense. That's entirely in-character for Mr. Musk.

tokai 3y ago
Or just block charging in a whole country because he got owned on twitter.
- BlueTemplar 3y ago
  And then what, try to electrocute the law enforcement somehow when they come in to unblock it ?
yardie 3y ago
EVGo already charges a $3.99 session fee. I made the mistake of topping up a EV rental without reading the fine print. BTW, Tesla charges $12.99/mo for access to the SuperCharger network for non-Tesla brands. The $/kW rate is pretty competitive and just .05-.10 higher than the residential depending on time of day.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

Yes, that's why the NACS announcements are good for us Tesla owners. A lot of Tesla owners are worried about cars from other manufactures filling up Tesla charging stations. That's probably a valid concern, but I'm happy about the reduced reliance on Tesla.

natch 3y ago
Teslas aren’t limited to charging at superchargers. Saying there is a “reliance on Tesla” makes it sound like they are. That’s going to confuse or mislead some people, maybe not your intent, but it will. We already live in a world where Teslas can charge at any charger and (recent tentative changes aside) other cars can only charge at unreliable expensive non-Tesla chargers. It’s good that this is changing but the only way it’s good for Tesla owners is that money is going to be raining down to further build out the supercharger network.
- clouddrover 3y ago
  > We already live in a world where ... other cars can only charge at unreliable expensive non-Tesla chargers. No, that's North America. Europe is different: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y33AArvMUQ Although Tesla's V4 chargers still suck for 800 volt cars which is a shame. Tesla must try harder: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEJ2KtzMeh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJgThJtCR2g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJgThJtCR2g
  - natch 3y ago
    Thanks, good reminder of something large I overlooked.

taylodl 3y ago

This gets at the core as to why I've not (yet) bought an EV - it's absolutely insane that my car purchase dictates the people I have to associate with for refueling. As you point out - I would never buy a car having the stipulation I could only refuel at Chevron stations. I'll stick with my dino juice so long as Tesla is the only viable option available for recharging. I'd think about getting an EV for a local commuter car where I can always charge at home, but they're still too expensive for that - though that should change as the used EV market becomes more developed and mature.

Qwertious 3y ago
The funny thing is that electrical charging isn't fully standardized, but somehow hydrocarbons are.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  This should be true, new technology is less standardized than ancient tech.
- dpkirchner 3y ago
  They probably wouldn't be standardized if they didn't have to be. IMO this is a regulatory failure.
- djbusby 3y ago
  Gas and Oil didn't start off as standardized (nothing does) - got there over time. I'm sure EV will get there - eventually. Needs a standards group like ASTM maybe.
  - Schiendelman 3y ago
    We’re there already - everyone has adopted NACS. Interestingly, the standards group was the problem…
- galangalalgol 3y ago
  They aren't really, it is just that modern engines are incredibly tolerant of what you put in them. Some survey found that the different octane tanks get mis-filled a large portion of the time with other octanes or higher ethanol ratings. Even within an octane rating what is in there varies a lot. The changes needed to make a four stroke work on propane is very small. And an old diesel engine will run on almost any liquid that will burn but not evaporate at stp. The cars will get smarter and be able to do better with different voltages at some point.

ajross 3y ago

This seems backwards. You're demanding that people use alternatives in the market because of competition. But competition is what we have, and the market is choosing winners and losers. So... you're demanding we use the losers' products. So they can compete? Which they... aren't?