4 ms·

> The point of the book is that religious fanatics can take over even in the USA That's her point. My point are the gymnastics done to substitute Islam with Ch

> The point of the book is that religious fanatics can take over even in the USA That's her point. My point are the gymnastics done to substitute Islam with Christianity. If her work was the exception, with lots of other made-into-Netflix-miniseries works warning of Sharia, I would share your opinion. It gets even more skewed than Handmaid's Tale: The Woman King was perfectly fine depicting things that happened "far away", to "other people", "a long time ago". What the films was not fine with was accurately depicting the African kingdom of Dahomey as slavers, and the French as (belatedly) fighting against slavery. So the film simply reversed their roles [1]. For a more topical example, look at how the Apollo affair [2] made it into popular media: Israel stole plutonium from the US for their weapons program. It inspired the book Sum of All Fears, in which the plutonium was instead stolen by Palestinians. By the time it was made into a star-studded movie, the villains became Neo-Nazis. There is always some artistic excuse to justify these politically useful alterations. [1] https://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/woman-king/ https://www.historyvshollywood.com/reelfaces/woman-king/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apollo_Affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apollo_Affair

krisoft 3y ago
> That's her point. Yup. And it is her book. > My point are the gymnastics done to substitute Islam with Christianity. Clearly here we disagree. I see no gymnastics. Christian religious fanatics are are actively meddling with woman's reproductive rights as we are discussing this. > It gets even more skewed than Handmaid's Tale The difference is that those two stories you mention are purporting to describe something which happened. Because of that you can ask if they are accurate or not. With something completely fictional that is not a valid question.
- SenAnder 3y ago
  > Yup. And it is her book. Are you implying we should not critique or contextualize works in a way their authors would disapprove of? > The difference is that those two stories you mention are purporting to describe something which happened Only the Woman King - The Sum of All Fears is openly fiction. In fact, most media are works of fiction grown around a grain of truth. Or they should be. When that grain is changed to a lie, over and over again, it is prudent to notice. Or we can stubbornly find a different excuse for each case, and miss the forest for the trees.
  - krisoft 3y ago
    > Are you implying we should not critique or contextualize works in a way their authors would disapprove of? No. You made it sound like you have a problem with her book showcasing her opinion. As if that is somehow dirty. > When that grain is changed to a lie, over and over again, it is prudent to notice. Sure. You still failed to elaborate on the lie inherent in the The Handmaid's Tale. Must not be that great of an example if when I asked about it you rather started talking about two other unrelated stories. > Or we can stubbornly find a different excuse for each case I don't know what we are "finding an excuse for".
woooooo 3y ago
Islam is external (to America, mostly), Christianity is internal. If you make it about Islam instead of Christianity, the solution becomes "bomb more arabs", rather than "watch out and don't accidentally become this".
- SenAnder 3y ago
  As I said, there's always some excuse, different every time, but with the same result: defame your enemy. The issues in the Apollo affair or A Time to Kill [1] were internal, yet the villains and/or victims were still changed. [1] Unlike Grisham's depiction, however, the Scotts were white and their assailant was black. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Time_to_Kill_(Grisham_novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Time_to_Kill_(Grisham_novel)
p_j_w 3y ago
The only gymnastics going on are your gymnastics to make out that any criticism or warnings about fundamentalist Christianity are gymnastics because they should be about Islam instead.

krisoft 3y ago

> That's her point. Yup. And it is her book. > My point are the gymnastics done to substitute Islam with Christianity. Clearly here we disagree. I see no gymnastics. Christian religious fanatics are are actively meddling with woman's reproductive rights as we are discussing this. > It gets even more skewed than Handmaid's Tale The difference is that those two stories you mention are purporting to describe something which happened. Because of that you can ask if they are accurate or not. With something completely fictional that is not a valid question.

SenAnder 3y ago
> Yup. And it is her book. Are you implying we should not critique or contextualize works in a way their authors would disapprove of? > The difference is that those two stories you mention are purporting to describe something which happened Only the Woman King - The Sum of All Fears is openly fiction. In fact, most media are works of fiction grown around a grain of truth. Or they should be. When that grain is changed to a lie, over and over again, it is prudent to notice. Or we can stubbornly find a different excuse for each case, and miss the forest for the trees.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > Are you implying we should not critique or contextualize works in a way their authors would disapprove of? No. You made it sound like you have a problem with her book showcasing her opinion. As if that is somehow dirty. > When that grain is changed to a lie, over and over again, it is prudent to notice. Sure. You still failed to elaborate on the lie inherent in the The Handmaid's Tale. Must not be that great of an example if when I asked about it you rather started talking about two other unrelated stories. > Or we can stubbornly find a different excuse for each case I don't know what we are "finding an excuse for".

woooooo 3y ago

Islam is external (to America, mostly), Christianity is internal. If you make it about Islam instead of Christianity, the solution becomes "bomb more arabs", rather than "watch out and don't accidentally become this".

SenAnder 3y ago
As I said, there's always some excuse, different every time, but with the same result: defame your enemy. The issues in the Apollo affair or A Time to Kill [1] were internal, yet the villains and/or victims were still changed. [1] Unlike Grisham's depiction, however, the Scotts were white and their assailant was black. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Time_to_Kill_(Grisham_novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Time_to_Kill_(Grisham_novel)

p_j_w 3y ago

The only gymnastics going on are your gymnastics to make out that any criticism or warnings about fundamentalist Christianity are gymnastics because they should be about Islam instead.