3 ms·

citation needed. ADHD is a deficit in dopamine processing/production within the brain, it has physiological signs that we can look for: https://link.springer.

by fao_ 3y ago

citation needed. ADHD is a deficit in dopamine processing/production within the brain, it has physiological signs that we can look for: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s11689-022-09440-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s11689-022-09440-2

marginalia_nu 3y ago
DSM-V and ICD? ADHD is diagnosed based on symptoms, not based on physiological signs. Like most diagnoses, it's a co-occurring set of traits we'de decided is outside of what's normal.
- atcalan 3y ago
  Diagnosis is not the same as underlying physiological cause. The Browns or Vanderbilt assessments are useful for identifying the disorder because the symptoms are stereotypical.
- InSteady 3y ago
  This is being investigated and may eventually become part of the diagnosis (if you can afford the tests): https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1026616/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1026... >In conclusion, a series of biomarkers in the literature are promising as objective parameters to more accurately diagnose ADHD, especially in those with comorbidities that prevent the use of DSM-5. However, more research is needed to confirm the reliability of the biomarkers in larger cohort studies. But yeah, generally there are a lot of conditions where you go report symptoms to your doctor or perhaps a specialist and they prescribe a treatment based on that alone. Testing is mostly used to rule out the really nasty possibilities or figure out what's actually going on when first-line treatments don't work.
atcalan 3y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:text=Thus%2C%20the%20D2%20dopamine%20receptor,for%20novel%20therapeutics%20in%20ADHD.&text=A%20familiar%20feature%20of%20Attention,such%20as%20methylphenidate%20and%20amphetamine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:tex.... Correct. fMRI studies show stark prefrontal activation differences between ADHD and neurotypical brains. I have run fMRI studies for air traffic controllers, who have the opposite experience from ADHD. Very high working memory and processing speed.
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  > Very high working memory and processing speed Are both of those really clinical markers for ADHD? as in, adhd would be expected to have low working memory and low processing speed? My understanding is its more about executive function I.E. deciding to start tasks. admittedly my experience is coloured by my own clinical diagnosis of adhd plus anecdotally good working memory and processing speed
  - intelVISA 3y ago
    One imagines it's like a fast CPU with great L3 cache but nobody plugged the actual RAM in so you gotta use spinning rust as swap for bigger workloads.
  - atcalan 3y ago
    Both my son and I have a GAI in the gifted range. Our psi and wmi pull us down out of contention. I'm talking 88 and below. Both are heavily executive function loaded; a halmark of ADHD. Same happened with algebra. He was forced to repeat in 9th grade and they tanked me right out of algebra in 8th. Both of us taught ourselves calculus in HS because we were bored to tears. Algebra is heavily executive function loaded. Imperative languages with good debuggers or scripted were easy for us. Declarative languages, like SQL, not so much. Functional programming depends heavily on where I am with respect to the cortisol curve.
    - hirvi74 3y ago
      Do you think IQ tests are as valid as psychologists claim? I took the WAIS-IV many moons ago, and I couldn't help but think how BS the whole test was. I even intentionally dodged some questions for the hell of it to see if my proctor would notice. I even got in an argument with the psychologist/proctor at one point during the symbol matching section. I was supposed to write the corresponding number under a series of randomly ordered symbols on a page. The numbers were mapped to each symbol using a key at the top of the page. I thought it'd be easier to solve all of the same symbols one at a time e.g., if A = 1, B = 2, etc. then I would write "1" under every A symbol, then "2" under every B, etc.. The proctor told me, "Wait, you can't solve them like that. You have to do them in order." I replied, "Why does it matter? It's my test and it's what is intuitive to me to solve them." He replied with something like, "Time's ticking" (implying that that I'm only hurting my score by talking with him). There were probably more words exchanged, but that's the gist of it. Anyway, after all the BS, I received my scores, and I swear there were flaws in the calculations (despite using the proprietary software) though my score wasn't too bad -- my GAI was much higher than FSIQ. I also had to calculate my own GAI since the ass never put it on my report (I found a pirated copy of the manual with the proper tables in the back based on the section scores). The psychologist (who was the proctor) basically told me that due to my large variance in some scores that my test could be considered a "testing error" and "you do not technically have an IQ score" but he "managed to manipulate the numbers a bit to give me a score." He couldn't provide me anything with a confidence interval greater than 90% (not the worst, I know), and there were odd statements in my report about having difficulty scoring my test due to my age (I was 22 at the time). So, who knows? I refuse to ever do one again though. Anyway, I know my behavior didn't help lol, but I also just got a weirdly pseudoscientific feeling from the whole process. I've done plenty of my own research on the topic, and I am still not convinced it's the be-all and end-all of psychological testing. I think intelligence is too abstract for humans to quantify currently.

by fao_ 3y ago

marginalia_nu 3y ago

DSM-V and ICD? ADHD is diagnosed based on symptoms, not based on physiological signs. Like most diagnoses, it's a co-occurring set of traits we'de decided is outside of what's normal.

atcalan 3y ago
Diagnosis is not the same as underlying physiological cause. The Browns or Vanderbilt assessments are useful for identifying the disorder because the symptoms are stereotypical.
InSteady 3y ago
This is being investigated and may eventually become part of the diagnosis (if you can afford the tests): https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1026616/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1026... >In conclusion, a series of biomarkers in the literature are promising as objective parameters to more accurately diagnose ADHD, especially in those with comorbidities that prevent the use of DSM-5. However, more research is needed to confirm the reliability of the biomarkers in larger cohort studies. But yeah, generally there are a lot of conditions where you go report symptoms to your doctor or perhaps a specialist and they prescribe a treatment based on that alone. Testing is mostly used to rule out the really nasty possibilities or figure out what's actually going on when first-line treatments don't work.

atcalan 3y ago

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:text=Thus%2C%20the%20D2%20dopamine%20receptor,for%20novel%20therapeutics%20in%20ADHD.&text=A%20familiar%20feature%20of%20Attention,such%20as%20methylphenidate%20and%20amphetamine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:tex.... Correct. fMRI studies show stark prefrontal activation differences between ADHD and neurotypical brains. I have run fMRI studies for air traffic controllers, who have the opposite experience from ADHD. Very high working memory and processing speed.

RugnirViking 3y ago
> Very high working memory and processing speed Are both of those really clinical markers for ADHD? as in, adhd would be expected to have low working memory and low processing speed? My understanding is its more about executive function I.E. deciding to start tasks. admittedly my experience is coloured by my own clinical diagnosis of adhd plus anecdotally good working memory and processing speed
- intelVISA 3y ago
  One imagines it's like a fast CPU with great L3 cache but nobody plugged the actual RAM in so you gotta use spinning rust as swap for bigger workloads.
- atcalan 3y ago
  Both my son and I have a GAI in the gifted range. Our psi and wmi pull us down out of contention. I'm talking 88 and below. Both are heavily executive function loaded; a halmark of ADHD. Same happened with algebra. He was forced to repeat in 9th grade and they tanked me right out of algebra in 8th. Both of us taught ourselves calculus in HS because we were bored to tears. Algebra is heavily executive function loaded. Imperative languages with good debuggers or scripted were easy for us. Declarative languages, like SQL, not so much. Functional programming depends heavily on where I am with respect to the cortisol curve.
  - hirvi74 3y ago
    Do you think IQ tests are as valid as psychologists claim? I took the WAIS-IV many moons ago, and I couldn't help but think how BS the whole test was. I even intentionally dodged some questions for the hell of it to see if my proctor would notice. I even got in an argument with the psychologist/proctor at one point during the symbol matching section. I was supposed to write the corresponding number under a series of randomly ordered symbols on a page. The numbers were mapped to each symbol using a key at the top of the page. I thought it'd be easier to solve all of the same symbols one at a time e.g., if A = 1, B = 2, etc. then I would write "1" under every A symbol, then "2" under every B, etc.. The proctor told me, "Wait, you can't solve them like that. You have to do them in order." I replied, "Why does it matter? It's my test and it's what is intuitive to me to solve them." He replied with something like, "Time's ticking" (implying that that I'm only hurting my score by talking with him). There were probably more words exchanged, but that's the gist of it. Anyway, after all the BS, I received my scores, and I swear there were flaws in the calculations (despite using the proprietary software) though my score wasn't too bad -- my GAI was much higher than FSIQ. I also had to calculate my own GAI since the ass never put it on my report (I found a pirated copy of the manual with the proper tables in the back based on the section scores). The psychologist (who was the proctor) basically told me that due to my large variance in some scores that my test could be considered a "testing error" and "you do not technically have an IQ score" but he "managed to manipulate the numbers a bit to give me a score." He couldn't provide me anything with a confidence interval greater than 90% (not the worst, I know), and there were odd statements in my report about having difficulty scoring my test due to my age (I was 22 at the time). So, who knows? I refuse to ever do one again though. Anyway, I know my behavior didn't help lol, but I also just got a weirdly pseudoscientific feeling from the whole process. I've done plenty of my own research on the topic, and I am still not convinced it's the be-all and end-all of psychological testing. I think intelligence is too abstract for humans to quantify currently.