4 ms·

ADHD has little to no physiological markers. As the floor of expectations for attention and executive functioning continues to rise, the rate of diagnosis inc

ADHD has little to no physiological markers. As the floor of expectations for attention and executive functioning continues to rise, the rate of diagnosis increases.

fao_ 3y ago
citation needed. ADHD is a deficit in dopamine processing/production within the brain, it has physiological signs that we can look for: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s11689-022-09440-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s11689-022-09440-2
- marginalia_nu 3y ago
  DSM-V and ICD? ADHD is diagnosed based on symptoms, not based on physiological signs. Like most diagnoses, it's a co-occurring set of traits we'de decided is outside of what's normal.
  - atcalan 3y ago
    Diagnosis is not the same as underlying physiological cause. The Browns or Vanderbilt assessments are useful for identifying the disorder because the symptoms are stereotypical.
  - InSteady 3y ago
    This is being investigated and may eventually become part of the diagnosis (if you can afford the tests): https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1026616/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1026... >In conclusion, a series of biomarkers in the literature are promising as objective parameters to more accurately diagnose ADHD, especially in those with comorbidities that prevent the use of DSM-5. However, more research is needed to confirm the reliability of the biomarkers in larger cohort studies. But yeah, generally there are a lot of conditions where you go report symptoms to your doctor or perhaps a specialist and they prescribe a treatment based on that alone. Testing is mostly used to rule out the really nasty possibilities or figure out what's actually going on when first-line treatments don't work.
- atcalan 3y ago
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:text=Thus%2C%20the%20D2%20dopamine%20receptor,for%20novel%20therapeutics%20in%20ADHD.&text=A%20familiar%20feature%20of%20Attention,such%20as%20methylphenidate%20and%20amphetamine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:tex.... Correct. fMRI studies show stark prefrontal activation differences between ADHD and neurotypical brains. I have run fMRI studies for air traffic controllers, who have the opposite experience from ADHD. Very high working memory and processing speed.
  - RugnirViking 3y ago
    > Very high working memory and processing speed Are both of those really clinical markers for ADHD? as in, adhd would be expected to have low working memory and low processing speed? My understanding is its more about executive function I.E. deciding to start tasks. admittedly my experience is coloured by my own clinical diagnosis of adhd plus anecdotally good working memory and processing speed
    - intelVISA 3y ago
      One imagines it's like a fast CPU with great L3 cache but nobody plugged the actual RAM in so you gotta use spinning rust as swap for bigger workloads.
    - atcalan 3y ago
      Both my son and I have a GAI in the gifted range. Our psi and wmi pull us down out of contention. I'm talking 88 and below. Both are heavily executive function loaded; a halmark of ADHD. Same happened with algebra. He was forced to repeat in 9th grade and they tanked me right out of algebra in 8th. Both of us taught ourselves calculus in HS because we were bored to tears. Algebra is heavily executive function loaded. Imperative languages with good debuggers or scripted were easy for us. Declarative languages, like SQL, not so much. Functional programming depends heavily on where I am with respect to the cortisol curve.
      - hirvi74 3y ago
tapland 3y ago
One thing I noticed: Other people would get hyper from coffee, I would not. My brain would calm down a lot with the help of caffeine. I would regularly down 3-4 red bulls (diet) in the evening if I knew I needed to fall asleep and sleep well. I'm not sure if it's been studied but anecdotal evidence from others seem to suggest I'm not alone and that some others have the same experience.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  N=1, I sleep better on stimulants than off them. No problem falling asleep after drinking coffee (usually it makes me more sleepy), or even taking a prescribed stimulant before going to bed.
  - atcalan 3y ago
    There is actual research on this. So n>>1.
  - intelVISA 3y ago
    Same, coffee is quite sedating.
  - piperswe 3y ago
    Some of my best naps have been after taking amphetamines. My brain shuts up, and I can actually relax.
    - bt4u 3y ago
      [dead]
  - qup 3y ago
    I fall asleep halfway through an energy drink with surprising regularity. In my youth, I would pound a mountain dew before bed.
- sonicanatidae 3y ago
  Paradoxical effects are not uncommon. My DNA is weird. I have lots of them. One example, is opiates make me MOVE. Most people they zonk out, not me. I'm ready to move your house, one brick at a time, with my bare hands and feel like I could knock it out in about an hour. Proton Pump inhibitors are common meds for acid reflux. About 10 years ago, I did a genetics study (I worked at the lab, and my data stayed mine) and learned that of the 7 classes of PPIs available, at that time, my body only works with 1. The others either have little/no effect or similar.
KittenInABox 3y ago
ADHD is known to be highly hereditary and has genetic markets. I don't think it's normal, as it's fairly consistent globally (not all countries have the same access or culture around technology and yet ADHD occurs at around the same rates).
- atcalan 3y ago
  People can't see it. I've had someone chastise my son for missing an appointment due to his calendar app not working while standing right in front of a wheelchair bound person, then proceed to a discussion of accommodations with the latter :|
atcalan 3y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:text=Thus%2C%20the%20D2%20dopamine%20receptor,for%20novel%20therapeutics%20in%20ADHD.&text=A%20familiar%20feature%20of%20Attention,such%20as%20methylphenidate%20and%20amphetamine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:tex.... O.o

ADHD has little to no physiological markers. As the floor of expectations for attention and executive functioning continues to rise, the rate of diagnosis increases.

fao_ 3y ago

citation needed. ADHD is a deficit in dopamine processing/production within the brain, it has physiological signs that we can look for: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s11689-022-09440-2 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s11689-022-09440-2

marginalia_nu 3y ago
DSM-V and ICD? ADHD is diagnosed based on symptoms, not based on physiological signs. Like most diagnoses, it's a co-occurring set of traits we'de decided is outside of what's normal.
- atcalan 3y ago
  Diagnosis is not the same as underlying physiological cause. The Browns or Vanderbilt assessments are useful for identifying the disorder because the symptoms are stereotypical.
- InSteady 3y ago
  This is being investigated and may eventually become part of the diagnosis (if you can afford the tests): https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1026616/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2023.1026... >In conclusion, a series of biomarkers in the literature are promising as objective parameters to more accurately diagnose ADHD, especially in those with comorbidities that prevent the use of DSM-5. However, more research is needed to confirm the reliability of the biomarkers in larger cohort studies. But yeah, generally there are a lot of conditions where you go report symptoms to your doctor or perhaps a specialist and they prescribe a treatment based on that alone. Testing is mostly used to rule out the really nasty possibilities or figure out what's actually going on when first-line treatments don't work.
atcalan 3y ago
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:text=Thus%2C%20the%20D2%20dopamine%20receptor,for%20novel%20therapeutics%20in%20ADHD.&text=A%20familiar%20feature%20of%20Attention,such%20as%20methylphenidate%20and%20amphetamine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:tex.... Correct. fMRI studies show stark prefrontal activation differences between ADHD and neurotypical brains. I have run fMRI studies for air traffic controllers, who have the opposite experience from ADHD. Very high working memory and processing speed.
- RugnirViking 3y ago
  > Very high working memory and processing speed Are both of those really clinical markers for ADHD? as in, adhd would be expected to have low working memory and low processing speed? My understanding is its more about executive function I.E. deciding to start tasks. admittedly my experience is coloured by my own clinical diagnosis of adhd plus anecdotally good working memory and processing speed
  - intelVISA 3y ago
    One imagines it's like a fast CPU with great L3 cache but nobody plugged the actual RAM in so you gotta use spinning rust as swap for bigger workloads.
  - atcalan 3y ago
    Both my son and I have a GAI in the gifted range. Our psi and wmi pull us down out of contention. I'm talking 88 and below. Both are heavily executive function loaded; a halmark of ADHD. Same happened with algebra. He was forced to repeat in 9th grade and they tanked me right out of algebra in 8th. Both of us taught ourselves calculus in HS because we were bored to tears. Algebra is heavily executive function loaded. Imperative languages with good debuggers or scripted were easy for us. Declarative languages, like SQL, not so much. Functional programming depends heavily on where I am with respect to the cortisol curve.
    - hirvi74 3y ago

tapland 3y ago

One thing I noticed: Other people would get hyper from coffee, I would not. My brain would calm down a lot with the help of caffeine. I would regularly down 3-4 red bulls (diet) in the evening if I knew I needed to fall asleep and sleep well. I'm not sure if it's been studied but anecdotal evidence from others seem to suggest I'm not alone and that some others have the same experience.

TeMPOraL 3y ago
N=1, I sleep better on stimulants than off them. No problem falling asleep after drinking coffee (usually it makes me more sleepy), or even taking a prescribed stimulant before going to bed.
- atcalan 3y ago
  There is actual research on this. So n>>1.
- intelVISA 3y ago
  Same, coffee is quite sedating.
- piperswe 3y ago
  Some of my best naps have been after taking amphetamines. My brain shuts up, and I can actually relax.
  - bt4u 3y ago
    [dead]
- qup 3y ago
  I fall asleep halfway through an energy drink with surprising regularity. In my youth, I would pound a mountain dew before bed.
sonicanatidae 3y ago
Paradoxical effects are not uncommon. My DNA is weird. I have lots of them. One example, is opiates make me MOVE. Most people they zonk out, not me. I'm ready to move your house, one brick at a time, with my bare hands and feel like I could knock it out in about an hour. Proton Pump inhibitors are common meds for acid reflux. About 10 years ago, I did a genetics study (I worked at the lab, and my data stayed mine) and learned that of the 7 classes of PPIs available, at that time, my body only works with 1. The others either have little/no effect or similar.

KittenInABox 3y ago

ADHD is known to be highly hereditary and has genetic markets. I don't think it's normal, as it's fairly consistent globally (not all countries have the same access or culture around technology and yet ADHD occurs at around the same rates).

atcalan 3y ago
People can't see it. I've had someone chastise my son for missing an appointment due to his calendar app not working while standing right in front of a wheelchair bound person, then proceed to a discussion of accommodations with the latter :|

atcalan 3y ago

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:text=Thus%2C%20the%20D2%20dopamine%20receptor,for%20novel%20therapeutics%20in%20ADHD.&text=A%20familiar%20feature%20of%20Attention,such%20as%20methylphenidate%20and%20amphetamine https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2839459/#:~:tex.... O.o