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From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rins
by r1ch 3y ago
From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.
- mikkom 3y ago> They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers. this should be the top comment
- mirekrusin 3y agoYes, but let me add my personal but - bottles for kids often have complex non leaking valves where detergent accumulates - as in you can see pieces of undissolved tablet every single time inside it. If missed it’ll affect little kids, every day, so be aware.
- pohl 3y agoAlso personal, but not every member of the family thinks about how water behaves — like how it pools — while loading the machine.
- bluejekyll 3y agoConstant debate between me and my significant other. She’s always annoyed that I go through and reorganize everything so that things drain and rinse properly.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoI did not see that in the article. Where is it?
- sschueller 3y agoYes but isn't this even worse? I can control what I use at home. I can't when I eat or drink out. So I get to pick between PFAS soaked throwaway single use cardboard cups or epithelial barrier damaging glass/ceramic ware.
- indigo0086 3y agoThere's a lesson in that first few sentences. Of course eating out is risky as it's a black box where you get food for putting money in it. You're not guaranteed quality or safety in the more subtle sense
- hughesjj 3y agoSo far, to my knowledge, I've gotten food poisoning from something I cooked for myself exactly once, and that's because my 12 year old dumbass brain thought microwaving a steak for a few minutes was a valid was a valid way to cook it Almost every time I've actually gotten sick from food has been eating out. I've also seen some close calls like when my fiancee was served 'rare' pork... Which isn't a culinary thing.
- Two4 3y agoyou microwaved a steak?!!
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- adrian_b 3y agoRoasting meat in a microwave oven (without water in a covered glass vessel) is a valid cooking method, which provides tasty meat in a perfectly reproducible way and in a shorter time than traditional cooking. Nevertheless, for good results it must be done at a low power (I use 440 W in a 1000 W oven) and a long time, e.g. 20 to 25 minutes for chicken, about 30 minutes for turkey and more for pork/beef. For organs, e.g. livers, hearts, gizzards, a somewhat shorter time is enough. When done for the first time, experiments are needed to determine the optimal power and time, which depend on the type of oven and on the amount and kind of meat. Once determined, the results will always be the same and the meat is very tasty, because it loses nothing, except a part of the water content (roasted meat has typically 2/3 of the weight of raw meat, due to water loss). The meat should be microwave-roasted after removing the bones, and preferably after being cut in bite-sized pieces, which will avoid too violent steam expulsions if the power level is set too high.
- the-dude 3y agoI had over 10 years of eczeme/sensitivity between my fingers after operating a professional dishwasher for under a year. I always thought the reason was the handling of the hot, sprayed tableware. It set on pretty quickly too : couple of months.
- thfuran 3y agoIt probably is. There's no indication that these results mean anything about the effects on skin.
- the-dude 3y ago> There's no indication that these results mean anything about the effects on skin. I didn't claim that, but I think it was a combination of the temperature and the (rinse) spray. One could feel the spray.
- rmellow 3y agoHow did your eczema go away?
- the-dude 3y agoAt the time I got some 'hormone' ointment from my doctor ( this is really scary and amazing stuff btw, apply it before bed, next morning : completely restored fingers ). I noticed the eczema returned as soon as I did wet cleaning in the house, so I converted to a staunch cleaning gloves wearer.
- chiefalchemist 3y ago> When individual components of the rinse aid were investigated separately, alcohol ethoxylates elicited a strong toxic and barrier-damaging effect. To clarify a bit, it's not professional dishwashers (the machines) but the soap / chemicals used for commercial dishwashing. Minor but important when thinking about the broader problem. Mind you, it gets diluted but those end up in the water supply, as does many other knows and unknowns. For me, the question has not be what effect does Compound X or Compound Y have individually, but when in the wild what happens when you combine A to Z+? Then what?
- XorNot 3y agoThat entirely depends on the stability of the compounds in waste water. They break seem to break down sufficiently quickly[1] that it was evaluated as a potential problem in sampling waste water to even determine their content. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11227547/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11227547/
- nottorp 3y agoAnother interesting question is what countries they got their detergents from. Formulas may vary across the world based on what's allowed and what's not.
- brundolf 3y agoEvery once in a while I grab a water cup, usually at a coffee shop, and I notice the cups smell a bit like bleach. Always struck me as weird, but I figured they wouldn't put them out that way if it wasn't safe I might be more careful now
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoI doubt most minimum wage earning coffee shop teens will know any better.
- red-iron-pine 3y agowhy would they? if you wanted someone trained in food chemistry then your coffee would cost 2x. hell, chances are the manager doesn't know much more, either. they have dishwasher, they put cups in dishwasher, they run, they serve in clean cups. it's clear from the article that this is an issue across the entire food service industry, and has nothing to do with whether or not your pimply faced barista knows what the safe level of rinse aid in pre-made clears is.
- fuzzfactor 3y agoThey know better than to drink out of the machines which were supposedly cleaned when they weren't there to know for sure. In the best-run high-turnover locations where cleaning agents are used according to a rigorous schedule proven to prevent slime and bacteria, it might be even more likely to have exposure if the chemicals are habitually incompletely rinsed from the apparatus afterward.
- AndrewKemendo 3y agoAlmost universally, the people handling your food at time of service have the least amount of training in the food delivery chain. Upscale restaurants will generally do a better job here with temperature control and regular inspections. Having a food handlers card as a chef is generally required but not for expo or servers and questionable for line chefs outside of higher end establishments. Bottom line, unless you’re at a Michelin or Beard restaurant you should expect you’re being exposed to more harmful stuff than you’d expect.
- TedDoesntTalk 3y agoI don’t see any mention of that in the article. Where did you read it?
- bluejekyll 3y ago“… in concentrations used in professional dishwashers.“
- z7 3y agoCorrect, but the question remains if the lower concentrations in consumer dishwashers might also affect health on some level.
- Turing_Machine 3y agoI knew a guy who had an ugly, painful ulcer on the top of his foot for a few months after dripping some liquid commercial dishwasher detergent on his sneaker while refilling the dispenser. That stuff is nasty.
- LargoLasskhyfv 3y agoDid you do the 'sniff-test'? I did, and do again from time to time, when elsewhere. In my experience I can smell that stuff on the dishes and glassware, even after having cleaned them by hand before, and even after a second run without detergent. On every consumer dishwasher, so far. That alone was reason for me to avoid them, since decades. And this hasn't changed. And I have no 'super-nose'(I think).
- 0x00_NULL 3y agoThis is not correct. It is about all dishwashers, but professional ones seem to lack a cleansing cycle after rinse aid is applied, thus the concentration of resulting rinse aid is higher. A consumer dishwasher is also used in their tests, but the concentration was much less than the professional dishwasher - however, they tested with 20g of rinse aid and used assumptions of the number and volume of washing cycles from their test dishwasher. A deviation of 10% difference in since water could increase the concentration significantly, by a factor of ~2 or more depending on the final rinsing stage. So, in their example, the results in consumer dishwashers fell in the 1:40,000 - 1:80,000 dilution range. But, that does not necessarily apply to a different brand of dishwasher with a different method of rinsing. A 10% savings in the rinse cycle water might move that ratio into the 1:20,000 - 1:40,000 range (which is within the range of having an significant effect). So, I interpret this as not dismissing of consumer dishwashers, but rather indicating more careful study is needed.