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PHEV batteries aren't that heavy these days. The Prius Prime has ~14kWh battery and weights ~290lbs. https://www.sae.org/news/2023/04/2023-toyota-prius-prime-d

PHEV batteries aren't that heavy these days. The Prius Prime has ~14kWh battery and weights ~290lbs. https://www.sae.org/news/2023/04/2023-toyota-prius-prime-drive https://www.sae.org/news/2023/04/2023-toyota-prius-prime-dri... Even with an extra 200+lbs, having a bigger battery is better for Regen and offsets the additional weight to some extent. If someone is a super conservative/disciplined driver, they can get the same mpg from a hybrid with a smaller pack, but most people don't want to hypermile their cars.

jacquesm 3y ago
That is a lot of weight to add to a vehicle, don't forget that every time you accelerate you need to accelerate that weight too.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  sure, but 90% of a car's energy goes towards fighting air resistance which doesn't change at all. (and ~20% of the ~10% energy penalty for accelerating gets returned when you brake)
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    Is this true? I recall reading that a large portion (75%?) is due to air resistance at highway speeds, but this is obviously much much lower at low speeds. I would be surprised if driving around town (which is where PHEVs are probably used a good deal, and where there's lots of stop-and-go) resulted in 90% of the energy going to fighting air resistance.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Exactly. For highway driving mass isn't all that relevant (it is to road and tire wear, but not for acceleration, after all you really only accelerate once). But in city driving mass is very important and air resistance is hardly a factor.
kenhwang 3y ago
Though the Prime is 460lbs heavier than a regular Prius. https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-toyota-prius-prime-first-test-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-toyota-prius-prime-f... You still need other additional equipment to use the bigger battery. Electric motors aren't light either. Having bigger motors without power to use them is also a waste.
- omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
  It is, but it's offset by better efficiency with all other things being equal. The current Prius Prime compared to the Prius is interesting because Toyota traded performance for fuel efficiency with the plug-in. In the last 2 generations of Prius, Toyota kept performance similar and the fuel efficiency of the plug-ins was better than the hybrids. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32484&id=31767&id=37163&id=38531 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32484&... At this point, having a larger battery/etc should allow better fuel effective even with more weight assuming the same vehicle, performance, etc...

jacquesm 3y ago

That is a lot of weight to add to a vehicle, don't forget that every time you accelerate you need to accelerate that weight too.

adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
sure, but 90% of a car's energy goes towards fighting air resistance which doesn't change at all. (and ~20% of the ~10% energy penalty for accelerating gets returned when you brake)
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Is this true? I recall reading that a large portion (75%?) is due to air resistance at highway speeds, but this is obviously much much lower at low speeds. I would be surprised if driving around town (which is where PHEVs are probably used a good deal, and where there's lots of stop-and-go) resulted in 90% of the energy going to fighting air resistance.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Exactly. For highway driving mass isn't all that relevant (it is to road and tire wear, but not for acceleration, after all you really only accelerate once). But in city driving mass is very important and air resistance is hardly a factor.

kenhwang 3y ago

Though the Prime is 460lbs heavier than a regular Prius. https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-toyota-prius-prime-first-test-review/ https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2023-toyota-prius-prime-f... You still need other additional equipment to use the bigger battery. Electric motors aren't light either. Having bigger motors without power to use them is also a waste.

omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
It is, but it's offset by better efficiency with all other things being equal. The current Prius Prime compared to the Prius is interesting because Toyota traded performance for fuel efficiency with the plug-in. In the last 2 generations of Prius, Toyota kept performance similar and the fuel efficiency of the plug-ins was better than the hybrids. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32484&id=31767&id=37163&id=38531 https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32484&... At this point, having a larger battery/etc should allow better fuel effective even with more weight assuming the same vehicle, performance, etc...