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It's interesting to see her with Jacques Pepin. Jacques is a master chef and an absolute beast in the kitchen, but his recipes often skip steps or "cheat" in or

It's interesting to see her with Jacques Pepin. Jacques is a master chef and an absolute beast in the kitchen, but his recipes often skip steps or "cheat" in order to get something about as good with less time and work. Julia insists on doing it the "right" way and is more opinionated. Both are master chefs, but they each have a different approach to cooking, and both are great. I don't take this as a cooking lesson but as a life lesson.

zdragnar 3y ago
Jacques worked in, and ran, commercial kitchens in restaurants prior to being in the media. Julia learned "proper" French cuisine and wanted to bring that authentic experience to Americans. The thing about cooking at home is that each dish can be a labor of love. On the other hand, when you're cooking for a large crowd over the course of an evening, each dish must be consistent in both quality and execution time, and can't afford to spend all day in the kitchen working on it. Two different approaches, for two very different audiences. Neither is right or wrong, in the context of what they are trying to achieve.
mongol 3y ago
I have thought about that balance. I usually strive to find the shortcuts, the ones that cut the time and steps and produce a result that is maybe 90 percent of perfect. For example, what is the shortest time to make pizza dough? According to many recipes you should start the day before. But what if I realize in the afternoon that I want to have pizza tonight? I have tried one hour of rising, and while that has worked, I think it is not close enough for the "right" balance. But I will continue to experiment.
- throwaway892238 3y ago
  The shortest time to pizza dough is the one you pick up from the grocery store in 10 minutes. No difference from whatever you'll make at home, and makes a great pizza. I've brought it with me in a cooler when camping and made pizza over the campfire. Next time to avoid having to ice it down, I'll just start a no-knead one the first night I make camp. Whatever works, works
  - OJFord 3y ago
    May as well buy the whole pizza at the supermarket then, no difference from whatever you'll make at home.
    - ethanbond 3y ago
      Never thought I’d have to say this but: putting a whole pizza in your backpack seems harder than putting pizza ingredients in your backpack
      - OJFord 3y ago
        Does it really though - one flat thing vs. a bunch of jars and packets, or at least a bag of pre-portioned toppings and one of oil/sauce? In addition to your pre-made dough + a rolling pin and mat of course. Unless it's supplied pre-rolled and part-baked, which apart from being even worse and more significantly diverged from what you could make (fresh) at home, means you've got the flat thing anyway that could have been pre-topped for approximately no extra space cost. But anyway, no I was surely obviously not responding purely to the camping anecdote, nor was other commenter making it solely about that, thread is about pizza, not backpacking.
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    There are some really good doughs out there. Whole Foods has a really good one. However I can make a better dough at home. I use a higher gluten flour (14%), diastatic malt powder and cold ferment for a few days. To my taste it’s better than any dough I’ve purchased. But yes, unnecessary.
  - mongol 3y ago
    Certainly. But I prefer making food myself over buying premade.
- phaker 3y ago
  You can go the exact other way, plain pizza dough is best after anywhere from 2 to 7 days in my experience. You can push it to 10 or 14 days too, which will taste different but still very good and the dough will be quite weak by then for thin crust pizza. You still have to think of it ahead of time but this removes need for coordination and lets you do it in batches. Also I just make one kind of starter bread dough in batches and then make everything out of it, some things as-is (bread for first ~4 days, bread dough pizzas for 14 days), some by mixing it with fresh dough (bread afterwards, everything else). But i'm specifically after the heavily fermented dark dough taste.
  - OJFord 3y ago
    It freezes well, 14d would be way over-fermented even in the fridge IMO. Doesn't really save having to know in advance because it needs to defrost and prove, but it does save having to be in the mood again within just a few days for another one. (It's difficult/annoying to make so little dough as for one pizza, IMO.)
    - nemo44x 3y ago
      14 days is long but if you use a minuscule amount of yeast it might be fine. Temperature matters too. A very cold fridge found make it work.
    - phaker 3y ago
      I keep them in the fridge, yes, should have mentioned that. Oh, and another thing i should have mentioned is that if the dough is older i make sure to fold it few times more and work a bit more fresh flour into it. And i use high hydration (as high as i can make it, about 72~75%), when i pull it out from the fridge it's _wet_ so even when it's as old as it should be (2~7 days) the crust will be mostly fresh flour. The trick is that there is no trick and you just let it overferment but pick style that will work well with it. You need savory toppings to go with the taste, e.g. salami and maybe sharper tasting cheese. Making very thin pie will be difficult with dough so weak so don't do that, it won't rise very high so don't make it too thick either. And 14 days is the furthest i recommend taking it. As i wrote above two to seven days is best, of course it tastes differently after seven than after two days but both are good and perfectly within the canon of 'pizza' and you can prepare it anyhow you want. Beyond that you're pushing it, but since the topic is what shortcuts you can take i'll still recommend more than you need and using it longer than you'd think to over trying to make it the same day. 30~40 minutes from a decision to a pizza, it does taste right too.
- Hikikomori 3y ago
  https://www.brianlagerstrom.com/recipes/1-hour-pan-pizza https://www.brianlagerstrom.com/recipes/1-hour-pan-pizza Has a 1 hour normal pizza recipe as well. Haven't tried his pizza recipe but he used to work at a bakery and his bread recipe worked well for me.
jsweojtj 3y ago
I loved seeing his technique. This is a 2 min video of him cutting up a raw chicken https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfDsNRXPKE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfDsNRXPKE8. He's going slow because he's explaining, but it's so smooth he's still fast.
bwbmr 3y ago
Ehhhh- Mastering the Art of French Cooking though opens up with "This is a book for the servantless American cook who can be unconcerned on occasion with budgets, waistlines, time schedules, children’s meals, the parent-chauffeur-den-mother syndrome, or anything else which might interfere with the enjoyment of producing something wonderful to eat." Today we tent to view Mastering the Art of the French Cooking as fussy (and her forward does acknowledge that ones schedule must be free), in no small part due to works like Julie & Julia, but the opening lines in the forward are counter to that (Key phrase being "servantless American.")- on the contrary _not_ fussy but demonstrative of good foundational technique. Pepin's La Methode and La Technique are comparable, if not more formal, though of course very much aimed at a different audience. Both chefs published more casual, everyday recipes later in their career.

zdragnar 3y ago

Jacques worked in, and ran, commercial kitchens in restaurants prior to being in the media. Julia learned "proper" French cuisine and wanted to bring that authentic experience to Americans. The thing about cooking at home is that each dish can be a labor of love. On the other hand, when you're cooking for a large crowd over the course of an evening, each dish must be consistent in both quality and execution time, and can't afford to spend all day in the kitchen working on it. Two different approaches, for two very different audiences. Neither is right or wrong, in the context of what they are trying to achieve.

mongol 3y ago

I have thought about that balance. I usually strive to find the shortcuts, the ones that cut the time and steps and produce a result that is maybe 90 percent of perfect. For example, what is the shortest time to make pizza dough? According to many recipes you should start the day before. But what if I realize in the afternoon that I want to have pizza tonight? I have tried one hour of rising, and while that has worked, I think it is not close enough for the "right" balance. But I will continue to experiment.

throwaway892238 3y ago
The shortest time to pizza dough is the one you pick up from the grocery store in 10 minutes. No difference from whatever you'll make at home, and makes a great pizza. I've brought it with me in a cooler when camping and made pizza over the campfire. Next time to avoid having to ice it down, I'll just start a no-knead one the first night I make camp. Whatever works, works
- OJFord 3y ago
  May as well buy the whole pizza at the supermarket then, no difference from whatever you'll make at home.
  - ethanbond 3y ago
    Never thought I’d have to say this but: putting a whole pizza in your backpack seems harder than putting pizza ingredients in your backpack
    - OJFord 3y ago
      Does it really though - one flat thing vs. a bunch of jars and packets, or at least a bag of pre-portioned toppings and one of oil/sauce? In addition to your pre-made dough + a rolling pin and mat of course. Unless it's supplied pre-rolled and part-baked, which apart from being even worse and more significantly diverged from what you could make (fresh) at home, means you've got the flat thing anyway that could have been pre-topped for approximately no extra space cost. But anyway, no I was surely obviously not responding purely to the camping anecdote, nor was other commenter making it solely about that, thread is about pizza, not backpacking.
- nemo44x 3y ago
  There are some really good doughs out there. Whole Foods has a really good one. However I can make a better dough at home. I use a higher gluten flour (14%), diastatic malt powder and cold ferment for a few days. To my taste it’s better than any dough I’ve purchased. But yes, unnecessary.
- mongol 3y ago
  Certainly. But I prefer making food myself over buying premade.
phaker 3y ago
You can go the exact other way, plain pizza dough is best after anywhere from 2 to 7 days in my experience. You can push it to 10 or 14 days too, which will taste different but still very good and the dough will be quite weak by then for thin crust pizza. You still have to think of it ahead of time but this removes need for coordination and lets you do it in batches. Also I just make one kind of starter bread dough in batches and then make everything out of it, some things as-is (bread for first ~4 days, bread dough pizzas for 14 days), some by mixing it with fresh dough (bread afterwards, everything else). But i'm specifically after the heavily fermented dark dough taste.
- OJFord 3y ago
  It freezes well, 14d would be way over-fermented even in the fridge IMO. Doesn't really save having to know in advance because it needs to defrost and prove, but it does save having to be in the mood again within just a few days for another one. (It's difficult/annoying to make so little dough as for one pizza, IMO.)
  - nemo44x 3y ago
    14 days is long but if you use a minuscule amount of yeast it might be fine. Temperature matters too. A very cold fridge found make it work.
  - phaker 3y ago
    I keep them in the fridge, yes, should have mentioned that. Oh, and another thing i should have mentioned is that if the dough is older i make sure to fold it few times more and work a bit more fresh flour into it. And i use high hydration (as high as i can make it, about 72~75%), when i pull it out from the fridge it's _wet_ so even when it's as old as it should be (2~7 days) the crust will be mostly fresh flour. The trick is that there is no trick and you just let it overferment but pick style that will work well with it. You need savory toppings to go with the taste, e.g. salami and maybe sharper tasting cheese. Making very thin pie will be difficult with dough so weak so don't do that, it won't rise very high so don't make it too thick either. And 14 days is the furthest i recommend taking it. As i wrote above two to seven days is best, of course it tastes differently after seven than after two days but both are good and perfectly within the canon of 'pizza' and you can prepare it anyhow you want. Beyond that you're pushing it, but since the topic is what shortcuts you can take i'll still recommend more than you need and using it longer than you'd think to over trying to make it the same day. 30~40 minutes from a decision to a pizza, it does taste right too.
Hikikomori 3y ago
https://www.brianlagerstrom.com/recipes/1-hour-pan-pizza https://www.brianlagerstrom.com/recipes/1-hour-pan-pizza Has a 1 hour normal pizza recipe as well. Haven't tried his pizza recipe but he used to work at a bakery and his bread recipe worked well for me.

jsweojtj 3y ago

I loved seeing his technique. This is a 2 min video of him cutting up a raw chicken https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfDsNRXPKE8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfDsNRXPKE8. He's going slow because he's explaining, but it's so smooth he's still fast.

bwbmr 3y ago

Ehhhh- Mastering the Art of French Cooking though opens up with "This is a book for the servantless American cook who can be unconcerned on occasion with budgets, waistlines, time schedules, children’s meals, the parent-chauffeur-den-mother syndrome, or anything else which might interfere with the enjoyment of producing something wonderful to eat." Today we tent to view Mastering the Art of the French Cooking as fussy (and her forward does acknowledge that ones schedule must be free), in no small part due to works like Julie & Julia, but the opening lines in the forward are counter to that (Key phrase being "servantless American.")- on the contrary _not_ fussy but demonstrative of good foundational technique. Pepin's La Methode and La Technique are comparable, if not more formal, though of course very much aimed at a different audience. Both chefs published more casual, everyday recipes later in their career.