7 ms·

Nope, not falling for this again microsoft. Once you actually start dogfooding your own GUI frameworks, then I'll bite.

by Vitamin_Sushi 3y ago

amir734jj 3y ago
Microsoft employee here. There is a lot of momentum behind MAUI so I am optimistic.
- lawgimenez 3y ago
  Oh? I work for one of the largest jobs site in Asia. Maui has only one entry for the year 2023. Not sure what momentum are you talking about.
- hackernate 3y ago
  Useful to know. So if I'm starting to build a new Windows app, what is Microsoft's recommendation? Should I use MAUI? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/windows-dotnet-maui/ https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/windows-dotne...) Or WPF? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/wpf/overview/?view=netdesktop-7.0 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/wpf/overvie...) Or WinForms? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/winforms/overview/?view=netdesktop-7.0 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/winforms/ov...) Or WinUI 2? Or WinUI 3? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/winui/#comparison-of-winui-3-and-winui-2 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/winui/#compar...) Or React Native for Windows? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-environment/javascript/react-native-for-windows https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-environment/ja...) Or Blazor? (https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blaz...) Or Win32? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/desktop-programming https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/desktop-prog...) Or even Xamarin? (https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/xamarin/ https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/xamarin/) I feel like I might have missed a few... And how confident are you that my choice isn't going to be deprecated in a couple of years? I'm not certain that "momentum" is worth much from a company who changes UI frameworks as often as some people change underwear...
  - addicted 3y ago
    Rookie mistake. The answer is obviously Silverlight.
    - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
      No, win32 rules or maybe WTL or MFC or even Visual J++.
  - danielscrubs 3y ago
    I wonder why this is. Is it because management is asleep at the wheel? Is it because teams competes with each other without direction from the top? Is it because heavy rotation of leadership who doesnt know better? Any insiders?
    - oblio 3y ago
      https://ritholtz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2011.06.27_organizational_charts.png https://ritholtz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2011.06.27_o...
- DANmode 3y ago
  > There is a lot of momentum behind MAUI Source?
- bmitc 3y ago
  I'm not entirely sure. SkiaSharp is the driver behind all the 2D graphics, isn't it? But the SkiaSharp repo is effectively unmaintained except maybe to support critical things for MAUI.
  - ygra 3y ago
    SkiaSharp has some MAUI integration, but AFAIK it's not used to render things. At least not when I last looked. On most (all?) platforms native drawing methods are used (which fits well into how MAUI works on each platform, admittedly). This comes with the drawback that performance varies wildly across platforms, however. (NB: I've last looked deeply into MAUI about a year ago, so things may have changed.)
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- jiggawatts 3y ago
  There's like... zero momentum behind MAUI. The wider industry has learned their lesson and nobody in their right mind would ever use MAUI for a new GUI project unless Microsoft converts 80% of their applications to it. The only decent GUI framework for Windows is Electron, which is based on Chromium. Microsoft's new GUI applications use Electron: VS Code, Azure Data Studio, etc... In other words: Google makes the best Microsoft Windows GUI framework, as endorsed by Microsoft's own developers.
  - Xeamek 3y ago
    >The only decent GUI framework for Windows is Electron, which is based on Chromium. Why not avalonia?
    - braiamp 3y ago
      Ask that to Microsoft.
  - brtkdotse 3y ago
    > The only decent GUI framework for Windows is Electron What a peculiar way of spelling “WinForms”
  - heisgone 3y ago
    Well, Microsoft ditched Electron for their new version of Teams.
    - jiggawatts 3y ago
      The new framework for Teams is just an Edge-flavored version of Electron, not MAUI.
- electroly 3y ago
  You're talking about momentum within Microsoft, I assume? There's no detectable momentum in the community at large. The ball hasn't even begun to roll. I have not heard or seen anyone using MAUI for anything serious so far. I've been writing Windows applications for 25 years at this point and am certainly not considering MAUI any time soon. They only just added keyboard accelerators--this is obviously not serious yet. To this day we are still writing Windows Forms applications. I'd consider embedding Blazor before I'd consider MAUI. Having lived through a lot of Microsoft GUI frameworks, I would say that I won't be fooled this easily. Not with another half-assed unfinished library. I'll be interested once it qualifies as whole-assed and not a moment sooner.
- nobodyandproud 3y ago
  Use Outlook 365 and Teams School and Work to prove MAUI, then we’ll take it more seriously.
- andydevguy 3y ago
  keep drinking that kool-aid.
- lenkite 3y ago
  Which Microsoft Product is using MAUI ? Any MS Windows App being built in MAUI ?
  - oblio 3y ago
    Word, Excel, Outlook. Just kidding, it's probably some intern's dashboard that monitors their Clippy staging environments.
kumarvvr 3y ago
Maui is Open Source, MIT License https://github.com/dotnet/maui https://github.com/dotnet/maui .NET is Open Source https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/platform/open-source https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/platform/open-source I do share your skepticism of Microsoft, but it looks like the economics and cash flow dynamics have changed drastically after the advent of the cloud. Microsoft is more focused on getting developers onto its ecosystem and help them with open source projects with the hope that they will use its Azure cloud services and bring in the money. My skepticism is a bit relaxed now and I have no qualms using .NET. I hope I am not wrong.
- sorwin 3y ago
  I think they may be referring to WPF, it promised so much, and it was great - then it was just left to die, and Microsoft moved on to MAUI
  - alternatex 3y ago
    Actually they moved onto UWP, then they moved onto WinUI 3. Now all this talk about MAUI but they have done zero dogfooding of it. People are sceptical of WinUI 3 but at least they used it in Windows 11.
- Vitamin_Sushi 3y ago
  I love the fact that .NET and friends are open source, but my issue isn't with the licensing, it's with m$ funneling tons of resources on projects that (most likely) will end up being a dead end. I'd also love if maui actually takes off since it does seem pretty neat, but until microsoft uses it for teams or any other of their clients, I'll pass. They also aren't even targeting linux or web browsers, which doesn't really make this more compelling than Flutter.
  - dangus 3y ago
    .NET is used all over the place in Microsoft, including many Microsoft Teams services being migrated to .NET. Teams is listed on Microsoft’s .NET customers page. https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/platform/customers https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/platform/customers Teams was originally written before this particular release existed.

Nope, not falling for this again microsoft. Once you actually start dogfooding your own GUI frameworks, then I'll bite.

amir734jj 3y ago

Microsoft employee here. There is a lot of momentum behind MAUI so I am optimistic.

lawgimenez 3y ago
Oh? I work for one of the largest jobs site in Asia. Maui has only one entry for the year 2023. Not sure what momentum are you talking about.
hackernate 3y ago
Useful to know. So if I'm starting to build a new Windows app, what is Microsoft's recommendation? Should I use MAUI? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/windows-dotnet-maui/ https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/windows-dotne...) Or WPF? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/wpf/overview/?view=netdesktop-7.0 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/wpf/overvie...) Or WinForms? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/winforms/overview/?view=netdesktop-7.0 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/desktop/winforms/ov...) Or WinUI 2? Or WinUI 3? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/winui/#comparison-of-winui-3-and-winui-2 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/winui/#compar...) Or React Native for Windows? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-environment/javascript/react-native-for-windows https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dev-environment/ja...) Or Blazor? (https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blaz...) Or Win32? (https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/desktop-programming https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/desktop-prog...) Or even Xamarin? (https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/xamarin/ https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/xamarin/) I feel like I might have missed a few... And how confident are you that my choice isn't going to be deprecated in a couple of years? I'm not certain that "momentum" is worth much from a company who changes UI frameworks as often as some people change underwear...
- addicted 3y ago
  Rookie mistake. The answer is obviously Silverlight.
  - tonyedgecombe 3y ago
    No, win32 rules or maybe WTL or MFC or even Visual J++.
- danielscrubs 3y ago
  I wonder why this is. Is it because management is asleep at the wheel? Is it because teams competes with each other without direction from the top? Is it because heavy rotation of leadership who doesnt know better? Any insiders?
  - oblio 3y ago
    https://ritholtz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2011.06.27_organizational_charts.png https://ritholtz.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2011.06.27_o...
DANmode 3y ago
> There is a lot of momentum behind MAUI Source?
bmitc 3y ago
I'm not entirely sure. SkiaSharp is the driver behind all the 2D graphics, isn't it? But the SkiaSharp repo is effectively unmaintained except maybe to support critical things for MAUI.
- ygra 3y ago
  SkiaSharp has some MAUI integration, but AFAIK it's not used to render things. At least not when I last looked. On most (all?) platforms native drawing methods are used (which fits well into how MAUI works on each platform, admittedly). This comes with the drawback that performance varies wildly across platforms, however. (NB: I've last looked deeply into MAUI about a year ago, so things may have changed.)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
jiggawatts 3y ago
There's like... zero momentum behind MAUI. The wider industry has learned their lesson and nobody in their right mind would ever use MAUI for a new GUI project unless Microsoft converts 80% of their applications to it. The only decent GUI framework for Windows is Electron, which is based on Chromium. Microsoft's new GUI applications use Electron: VS Code, Azure Data Studio, etc... In other words: Google makes the best Microsoft Windows GUI framework, as endorsed by Microsoft's own developers.
- Xeamek 3y ago
  >The only decent GUI framework for Windows is Electron, which is based on Chromium. Why not avalonia?
  - braiamp 3y ago
    Ask that to Microsoft.
- brtkdotse 3y ago
  > The only decent GUI framework for Windows is Electron What a peculiar way of spelling “WinForms”
- heisgone 3y ago
  Well, Microsoft ditched Electron for their new version of Teams.
  - jiggawatts 3y ago
    The new framework for Teams is just an Edge-flavored version of Electron, not MAUI.
electroly 3y ago
You're talking about momentum within Microsoft, I assume? There's no detectable momentum in the community at large. The ball hasn't even begun to roll. I have not heard or seen anyone using MAUI for anything serious so far. I've been writing Windows applications for 25 years at this point and am certainly not considering MAUI any time soon. They only just added keyboard accelerators--this is obviously not serious yet. To this day we are still writing Windows Forms applications. I'd consider embedding Blazor before I'd consider MAUI. Having lived through a lot of Microsoft GUI frameworks, I would say that I won't be fooled this easily. Not with another half-assed unfinished library. I'll be interested once it qualifies as whole-assed and not a moment sooner.
nobodyandproud 3y ago
Use Outlook 365 and Teams School and Work to prove MAUI, then we’ll take it more seriously.
andydevguy 3y ago
keep drinking that kool-aid.
lenkite 3y ago
Which Microsoft Product is using MAUI ? Any MS Windows App being built in MAUI ?
- oblio 3y ago
  Word, Excel, Outlook. Just kidding, it's probably some intern's dashboard that monitors their Clippy staging environments.

kumarvvr 3y ago

Maui is Open Source, MIT License https://github.com/dotnet/maui https://github.com/dotnet/maui .NET is Open Source https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/platform/open-source https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/platform/open-source I do share your skepticism of Microsoft, but it looks like the economics and cash flow dynamics have changed drastically after the advent of the cloud. Microsoft is more focused on getting developers onto its ecosystem and help them with open source projects with the hope that they will use its Azure cloud services and bring in the money. My skepticism is a bit relaxed now and I have no qualms using .NET. I hope I am not wrong.

sorwin 3y ago
I think they may be referring to WPF, it promised so much, and it was great - then it was just left to die, and Microsoft moved on to MAUI
- alternatex 3y ago
  Actually they moved onto UWP, then they moved onto WinUI 3. Now all this talk about MAUI but they have done zero dogfooding of it. People are sceptical of WinUI 3 but at least they used it in Windows 11.
Vitamin_Sushi 3y ago
I love the fact that .NET and friends are open source, but my issue isn't with the licensing, it's with m$ funneling tons of resources on projects that (most likely) will end up being a dead end. I'd also love if maui actually takes off since it does seem pretty neat, but until microsoft uses it for teams or any other of their clients, I'll pass. They also aren't even targeting linux or web browsers, which doesn't really make this more compelling than Flutter.
- dangus 3y ago
  .NET is used all over the place in Microsoft, including many Microsoft Teams services being migrated to .NET. Teams is listed on Microsoft’s .NET customers page. https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/platform/customers https://dotnet.microsoft.com/en-us/platform/customers Teams was originally written before this particular release existed.