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I think some people do like the suburbs (and they're allowed to), but the sky high housing costs in "nice" or "popular" cities indicate that there is unmet dema

I think some people do like the suburbs (and they're allowed to), but the sky high housing costs in "nice" or "popular" cities indicate that there is unmet demand to live in dense walkable areas. The car industry has been very very successful with equating driving with freedom though which makes this a hard conversation to have with people. It should all be priced accordingly, you want to drive your private vehicle into my city? Then be prepared to pay a fair value for parking and road maintenance.

psunavy03 3y ago
> The car industry has been very very successful with equating driving with freedom though which makes this a hard conversation to have with people. It can't possibly be a "hard conversation to have" because people disagree with you, huh? It has to be that the car companies brainwashed them? I see this everywhere on social media. "I have an opinion, my opinion is the right one, and if you disagree with me, you didn't actually come to an independent conclusion, you were just brainwashed or had an emotional response."
- NegativeLatency 3y ago
  Nobody makes ads that make walking look cool or get you to where you’re going in style, because there’s nothing to sell you in that case. They do make ads of cars taking shortcuts, going to nature, driving really fast, looking really cool etc (closed course, professional driver, do not attempt) Demand as seen by prices and lack of affordability in walkable areas in the US is sufficient evidence that it’s an underserved market. BTW You sorta proved my point at how convinced people are, and how it's such a hard conversation to have.
- gosub100 3y ago
  > if you disagree with me, you didn't actually come to an independent conclusion it goes in line with taking rights and responsibilities away from the individual. You want to go somewhere? take the government's approved method of getting there. You dont like smelling urine or seeing trash or getting accosted/threatened by homeless at the train station? too bad, should have voted for my guy, he's 6 votes away from funding the next "program" to help fix it. Sorry we can't fund police, they don't respond to property crimes any more. we need to raise taxes again to fund the next $CHILDREN program, get with the times. and on and on.
  - Mawr 3y ago
    You're right, it's about freedom. The freedom of not having to use a car to get literally anywhere.
mikrotikker 3y ago
Fuck that I love driving, it's one of my favourite hobbies. I can and do drive for hours, 26 hours is about my max. With my truck I know I can handle anything on the way and be self reliant. I can take lots of water. I can take almost all my tool for any repairs on the road. I can sleep in it. I can traverse off road terrain with the large off road tires. The 4wd can help with icy road conditions. I have a winch to self recover or help others in trouble. The large and bright lights and higher sitting position give good visibility of the road. These things are popular because they engender self reliance which contributes to practicality and convenience for the driver. Not everyone has a boring daily commute to a cubicle job in their tiny ev that has 100km range and coming home to put on nature videos while they run on their treadmill. Stop trying to make everyone fit into the same box as you
- NegativeLatency 3y ago
  > Fuck that I love having my lifestyle subsidized by other people Interesting that you're actually the one trying to make me fit in your box, when I said that it's fine for people to like what they like. Nobody's saying you can't drive your truck, go off road etc. I would like to be able to travel the 1/3 of a mile without having conflicts with drivers when I'm trying to walk. Additionally I'd like the freedom to be able to get places with dignity without paying many thousand per year in costs associated with a motor vehicle. Also since you brought up "self reliance" almost any bicycle is going to be way more repairable than a motor vehicle, and _much_ more reliable, more capable off road etc. Literally children can repair and maintain them.
  - mikrotikker 3y ago
    > make me fit in your box Not really... > I would like to be able to travel the 1/3 of a mile without having conflicts with drivers when I'm trying to walk. Why? Are you flipping off all the SUV drivers you see? > Also since you brought up "self reliance" almost any bicycle is going to be way more repairable than a motor vehicle, and _much_ more reliable, more capable off road etc. Literally children can repair and maintain them. Yes and you can still fit tent and stuff in your backpack or take a little trailer if you need. Way less tools needed. Travel lighter, less impact, access more places via skinnier tracks, it's cool. And you get a workout at the same time! I modify and maintain my own vehicle, so making it back from a 6000km trip on road and off road is very rewarding experience as it proves your abilities at (technical) driving as well as at spinning spanners and camping conveniences. Can cover more ground in a vehicle, visit more places, see more sights. Take a few more creature comforts. We only get so much time off work.
kelnos 3y ago
Both things can be true though. I agree that there's unmet demand in urban centers, but that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a massive revolt if laws and regulations made the suburban lifestyle much harder or more expensive.

psunavy03 3y ago

> The car industry has been very very successful with equating driving with freedom though which makes this a hard conversation to have with people. It can't possibly be a "hard conversation to have" because people disagree with you, huh? It has to be that the car companies brainwashed them? I see this everywhere on social media. "I have an opinion, my opinion is the right one, and if you disagree with me, you didn't actually come to an independent conclusion, you were just brainwashed or had an emotional response."

NegativeLatency 3y ago
Nobody makes ads that make walking look cool or get you to where you’re going in style, because there’s nothing to sell you in that case. They do make ads of cars taking shortcuts, going to nature, driving really fast, looking really cool etc (closed course, professional driver, do not attempt) Demand as seen by prices and lack of affordability in walkable areas in the US is sufficient evidence that it’s an underserved market. BTW You sorta proved my point at how convinced people are, and how it's such a hard conversation to have.
gosub100 3y ago
> if you disagree with me, you didn't actually come to an independent conclusion it goes in line with taking rights and responsibilities away from the individual. You want to go somewhere? take the government's approved method of getting there. You dont like smelling urine or seeing trash or getting accosted/threatened by homeless at the train station? too bad, should have voted for my guy, he's 6 votes away from funding the next "program" to help fix it. Sorry we can't fund police, they don't respond to property crimes any more. we need to raise taxes again to fund the next $CHILDREN program, get with the times. and on and on.
- Mawr 3y ago
  You're right, it's about freedom. The freedom of not having to use a car to get literally anywhere.

mikrotikker 3y ago

Fuck that I love driving, it's one of my favourite hobbies. I can and do drive for hours, 26 hours is about my max. With my truck I know I can handle anything on the way and be self reliant. I can take lots of water. I can take almost all my tool for any repairs on the road. I can sleep in it. I can traverse off road terrain with the large off road tires. The 4wd can help with icy road conditions. I have a winch to self recover or help others in trouble. The large and bright lights and higher sitting position give good visibility of the road. These things are popular because they engender self reliance which contributes to practicality and convenience for the driver. Not everyone has a boring daily commute to a cubicle job in their tiny ev that has 100km range and coming home to put on nature videos while they run on their treadmill. Stop trying to make everyone fit into the same box as you

NegativeLatency 3y ago
> Fuck that I love having my lifestyle subsidized by other people Interesting that you're actually the one trying to make me fit in your box, when I said that it's fine for people to like what they like. Nobody's saying you can't drive your truck, go off road etc. I would like to be able to travel the 1/3 of a mile without having conflicts with drivers when I'm trying to walk. Additionally I'd like the freedom to be able to get places with dignity without paying many thousand per year in costs associated with a motor vehicle. Also since you brought up "self reliance" almost any bicycle is going to be way more repairable than a motor vehicle, and _much_ more reliable, more capable off road etc. Literally children can repair and maintain them.
- mikrotikker 3y ago
  > make me fit in your box Not really... > I would like to be able to travel the 1/3 of a mile without having conflicts with drivers when I'm trying to walk. Why? Are you flipping off all the SUV drivers you see? > Also since you brought up "self reliance" almost any bicycle is going to be way more repairable than a motor vehicle, and _much_ more reliable, more capable off road etc. Literally children can repair and maintain them. Yes and you can still fit tent and stuff in your backpack or take a little trailer if you need. Way less tools needed. Travel lighter, less impact, access more places via skinnier tracks, it's cool. And you get a workout at the same time! I modify and maintain my own vehicle, so making it back from a 6000km trip on road and off road is very rewarding experience as it proves your abilities at (technical) driving as well as at spinning spanners and camping conveniences. Can cover more ground in a vehicle, visit more places, see more sights. Take a few more creature comforts. We only get so much time off work.

kelnos 3y ago

Both things can be true though. I agree that there's unmet demand in urban centers, but that doesn't mean that there wouldn't be a massive revolt if laws and regulations made the suburban lifestyle much harder or more expensive.