6 ms·

Ubuntu 24.04 LTS Committing to Netplan for Network Configuration

46 points by profwalkstr 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
nik736 3y ago
Great. I love it.
k_roy 3y ago
My only real problem with it is that even now, it's not complete for advanced configurations
- seadan83 3y ago
  Could you provide some concrete examples?
  - WirelessGigabit 3y ago
    I recall something about accept-ra for IPv6 combined with disabling DHCPv6 does not pick up the DNS address distributed by the RA.
- kjs3 3y ago
  A pet project beta test being conducted on someone else production.
polski-g 3y ago
Ubuntu continuing to try to push their snowflakes. nmcli/nmtui works acceptably well. ifupdown-ng works great. What problem is Ubuntu trying to solve?
- gorkish 3y ago
  > What problem is Ubuntu trying to solve? Guessing, but I think it probably has more to do with the various tools and frontends (GUI, cloud-init, etc.) designed to manage the configurations than it has to do with the capabilities of what the configuration system will support. I have been bitten by some of this too, but the various script hooks are still there, and I've been able to support everything else via those mechanisms.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > What problem is Ubuntu trying to solve? They're trying for lock-in and failing. Linux networking has been a solved problem since just about forever, and all this instability will do is cause people to abandon Ubuntu in favor of something less fickle.
  - olavgg 3y ago
    This, I really don't understand that they want to create a diverging solution for something that already works really well. We don't need 15 different solutions to configure networking. Imagine looking for a Java solution and the only response you find is in Kotlin... fucking annoying as I have to learn Kotlin to convert it to Java... The same thing with network configuration, you're looking for something that works on Debian and you only find a Ubuntu solution....
  - cvccvroomvroom 3y ago
    It would be more useful for the various major distros to pitch in for easy, simple, congruent CLI, UI, declarative, and API configuration management for common advanced configuration. Creating artificial lock-in that doesn't work is a double-barrel footgun blast. The Ubuntu people are like the SystemD people: they just want to reinvent things from scratch and shove it down everyone's throats without any consideration.
    - jacquesm 3y ago
      Lock-in is the anti-thesis of open source, the two should simply never be seen together.
- rickydroll 3y ago
  What they have done is taken the chaos of networking scattered across 1/2 dozen (or more) configuration files and commands and centralizes so the chaos is in one place. They've succeeded in simplifying some parts and I have faith they will make network configuration much simpler in the future. You only think ifupdown-ng, nmcli/nmtui work well because you don't remember how hard it was to learn and developed scar tissue from using them. To my scar tissue, Debian/Ubuntu is well organized and tools like netplan clicked very fast and make network configuration much easier.
cozzyd 3y ago
Let's see how many releases before they give up and go with the Fedora/EL solution.
- rickydroll 3y ago
  I like the chaos of the Fedora networking tools because they let me charge more billable hours as I untangle what the client set up for themselves. In all seriousness, once you learn Netplan, you get accustomed to 1 config file for all networking needs. I also prefer UFW to iptables. Simple and handles most day-to-day use cases.
  - Spivak 3y ago
    You're comparing apples/oranges. The comparison you should be making is ufw vs. firewalld and firewalld wins easily. UFW will always hold a special place in my heart but firewalld is just a whole other level.
- Spivak 3y ago
  The thing I can't understand is that netplan is just a bunch of janky C that is almost entirely parsing logic and the thinnest wrapper humanly possible over systemd-networkd/networkmanager that does all the real work. And the abstraction leaks for anything but the simplest cases so your files are targeting a specific backend anyway. systemd-networkd already gives you simple declarative INI networking files and a dbus interface. I can't find any value-add over just using its backends directly.
pxeboot 3y ago
On the server side, this is one of the reasons my company is quickly moving all Ubuntu servers to Debian. It is so much easier to just edit /etc/network/interfaces.
- reisse 3y ago
  > Debian so far has decided to go with Netplan for their nework stack on Debian Cloud images. Seems not for long
  - nexus7556 3y ago
    Thats unfortunate. Netplan is half-baked. Buggy and feature incomplete.
  - Prolixium 3y ago
    That sentence in the article almost reads as if it's missing a crucial word ("not"). Did Debian indeed decide to go with Netplan?
    - freedomben 3y ago
      The copy/pasta is accurate. Debian is adopting it[1] [1]: https://blog.slyon.de/2023/07/10/netplan-and-systemd-networkd-on-debian-bookworm/ https://blog.slyon.de/2023/07/10/netplan-and-systemd-network...
- merb 3y ago
  I prefer plain Systeme-networkd. Basically you just create a network unit file and configure the interface with it. Basically like network/interfaces, just a little bit more cleaned up
  - Faaak 3y ago
    netplan can actually use systemd-networkd as a backend. It will just generate the unit files, and let systemd do the job.
amluto 3y ago
Hopefully netplan sucks less by then? Seriously, current versions are barely usable, and I don’t think I’m doing anything particularly hard. Want to verify your config before committing to it? Nope. Want to delete a vlan? Not happening without bypassing netplan. Want to bring up a vlan on an interface with a long name (which is the default on a fresh Ubuntu install with a NIC in a PCIe slot)? Netplan will accept the configuration, but it won’t work, and you’ll have to do quite a bit of digging to find out why your vlan doesn’t exist as far as the kernel is concerned. The latter one is nasty if you upgrade Ubuntu on a system where the management interface is on a vlan.
- ainar-g 3y ago
  I was hoping that Canonical has higher standards when it comes to server software, as opposed to something like Snapcraft, but reading this makes me think that maybe they both were developed by the same team.
  - loloquwowndueo 3y ago
    They were not developed by the same team. Source : I’m a former Canonical employee.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Snapcraft is very much a thing on Ubuntu Server as well. It will "remind" you of that often when interfacing with apt
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  > Want to verify your config before committing to it? I really like "netplan try" actually. Maybe not exactly the same thing, but it has saved me once or twice.
- Thaxll 3y ago
  Good luck configuring wifi without netplan. Netplan is ok.
  - 3y ago
freedomben 3y ago
Canonical's blog post: https://ubuntu.com//blog/netplan-configuration-across-desktop-server-cloud-and-iot https://ubuntu.com//blog/netplan-configuration-across-deskto...
cvccvroomvroom 3y ago
Friends don't let friends Ubuntu and drive. Don't do crippled, insecure commercial-ware run by crazy people.
Takennickname 3y ago
Literally the main reason I left Ubuntu for Debian. Would have probably still been on Ubuntu if it wasn't for Netplan. (Now happily in the Fedora/Red Hat ecosystem)
throwaway67743 3y ago
Can someone explain to me why netplan even exists? I don't see any utility in it, I don't change out my network connection manager on a daily basis so what use is a sub par abstraction when I can configure my manager of choice directly? For me it's just one of the many many reasons I don't touch Ubuntu, but sometimes I have to deal with it and I always end up shaking my head at the half baked crap they keep adding.

46 points by profwalkstr 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

nik736 3y ago

Great. I love it.

k_roy 3y ago

My only real problem with it is that even now, it's not complete for advanced configurations

seadan83 3y ago
Could you provide some concrete examples?
- WirelessGigabit 3y ago
  I recall something about accept-ra for IPv6 combined with disabling DHCPv6 does not pick up the DNS address distributed by the RA.
kjs3 3y ago
A pet project beta test being conducted on someone else production.

polski-g 3y ago

Ubuntu continuing to try to push their snowflakes. nmcli/nmtui works acceptably well. ifupdown-ng works great. What problem is Ubuntu trying to solve?

gorkish 3y ago
> What problem is Ubuntu trying to solve? Guessing, but I think it probably has more to do with the various tools and frontends (GUI, cloud-init, etc.) designed to manage the configurations than it has to do with the capabilities of what the configuration system will support. I have been bitten by some of this too, but the various script hooks are still there, and I've been able to support everything else via those mechanisms.
jacquesm 3y ago
> What problem is Ubuntu trying to solve? They're trying for lock-in and failing. Linux networking has been a solved problem since just about forever, and all this instability will do is cause people to abandon Ubuntu in favor of something less fickle.
- olavgg 3y ago
  This, I really don't understand that they want to create a diverging solution for something that already works really well. We don't need 15 different solutions to configure networking. Imagine looking for a Java solution and the only response you find is in Kotlin... fucking annoying as I have to learn Kotlin to convert it to Java... The same thing with network configuration, you're looking for something that works on Debian and you only find a Ubuntu solution....
- cvccvroomvroom 3y ago
  It would be more useful for the various major distros to pitch in for easy, simple, congruent CLI, UI, declarative, and API configuration management for common advanced configuration. Creating artificial lock-in that doesn't work is a double-barrel footgun blast. The Ubuntu people are like the SystemD people: they just want to reinvent things from scratch and shove it down everyone's throats without any consideration.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    Lock-in is the anti-thesis of open source, the two should simply never be seen together.
rickydroll 3y ago
What they have done is taken the chaos of networking scattered across 1/2 dozen (or more) configuration files and commands and centralizes so the chaos is in one place. They've succeeded in simplifying some parts and I have faith they will make network configuration much simpler in the future. You only think ifupdown-ng, nmcli/nmtui work well because you don't remember how hard it was to learn and developed scar tissue from using them. To my scar tissue, Debian/Ubuntu is well organized and tools like netplan clicked very fast and make network configuration much easier.

cozzyd 3y ago

Let's see how many releases before they give up and go with the Fedora/EL solution.

rickydroll 3y ago
I like the chaos of the Fedora networking tools because they let me charge more billable hours as I untangle what the client set up for themselves. In all seriousness, once you learn Netplan, you get accustomed to 1 config file for all networking needs. I also prefer UFW to iptables. Simple and handles most day-to-day use cases.
- Spivak 3y ago
  You're comparing apples/oranges. The comparison you should be making is ufw vs. firewalld and firewalld wins easily. UFW will always hold a special place in my heart but firewalld is just a whole other level.
Spivak 3y ago
The thing I can't understand is that netplan is just a bunch of janky C that is almost entirely parsing logic and the thinnest wrapper humanly possible over systemd-networkd/networkmanager that does all the real work. And the abstraction leaks for anything but the simplest cases so your files are targeting a specific backend anyway. systemd-networkd already gives you simple declarative INI networking files and a dbus interface. I can't find any value-add over just using its backends directly.

pxeboot 3y ago

On the server side, this is one of the reasons my company is quickly moving all Ubuntu servers to Debian. It is so much easier to just edit /etc/network/interfaces.

reisse 3y ago
> Debian so far has decided to go with Netplan for their nework stack on Debian Cloud images. Seems not for long
- nexus7556 3y ago
  Thats unfortunate. Netplan is half-baked. Buggy and feature incomplete.
- Prolixium 3y ago
  That sentence in the article almost reads as if it's missing a crucial word ("not"). Did Debian indeed decide to go with Netplan?
  - freedomben 3y ago
    The copy/pasta is accurate. Debian is adopting it[1] [1]: https://blog.slyon.de/2023/07/10/netplan-and-systemd-networkd-on-debian-bookworm/ https://blog.slyon.de/2023/07/10/netplan-and-systemd-network...
merb 3y ago
I prefer plain Systeme-networkd. Basically you just create a network unit file and configure the interface with it. Basically like network/interfaces, just a little bit more cleaned up
- Faaak 3y ago
  netplan can actually use systemd-networkd as a backend. It will just generate the unit files, and let systemd do the job.

amluto 3y ago

Hopefully netplan sucks less by then? Seriously, current versions are barely usable, and I don’t think I’m doing anything particularly hard. Want to verify your config before committing to it? Nope. Want to delete a vlan? Not happening without bypassing netplan. Want to bring up a vlan on an interface with a long name (which is the default on a fresh Ubuntu install with a NIC in a PCIe slot)? Netplan will accept the configuration, but it won’t work, and you’ll have to do quite a bit of digging to find out why your vlan doesn’t exist as far as the kernel is concerned. The latter one is nasty if you upgrade Ubuntu on a system where the management interface is on a vlan.

ainar-g 3y ago
I was hoping that Canonical has higher standards when it comes to server software, as opposed to something like Snapcraft, but reading this makes me think that maybe they both were developed by the same team.
- loloquwowndueo 3y ago
  They were not developed by the same team. Source : I’m a former Canonical employee.
- freedomben 3y ago
  Snapcraft is very much a thing on Ubuntu Server as well. It will "remind" you of that often when interfacing with apt
hotpotamus 3y ago
> Want to verify your config before committing to it? I really like "netplan try" actually. Maybe not exactly the same thing, but it has saved me once or twice.
Thaxll 3y ago
Good luck configuring wifi without netplan. Netplan is ok.
- 3y ago

freedomben 3y ago

Canonical's blog post: https://ubuntu.com//blog/netplan-configuration-across-desktop-server-cloud-and-iot https://ubuntu.com//blog/netplan-configuration-across-deskto...

cvccvroomvroom 3y ago

Friends don't let friends Ubuntu and drive. Don't do crippled, insecure commercial-ware run by crazy people.

Takennickname 3y ago

Literally the main reason I left Ubuntu for Debian. Would have probably still been on Ubuntu if it wasn't for Netplan. (Now happily in the Fedora/Red Hat ecosystem)

throwaway67743 3y ago

Can someone explain to me why netplan even exists? I don't see any utility in it, I don't change out my network connection manager on a daily basis so what use is a sub par abstraction when I can configure my manager of choice directly? For me it's just one of the many many reasons I don't touch Ubuntu, but sometimes I have to deal with it and I always end up shaking my head at the half baked crap they keep adding.