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I agree, politicians can be hard to follow at times and Joe is no exception. He's notorious for confusing and incoherent ramblings like this: "I looked at the

I agree, politicians can be hard to follow at times and Joe is no exception. He's notorious for confusing and incoherent ramblings like this: "I looked at them and said, ‘if the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money'. Well son of a bitch, he got fired". We will never know what he meant, but I'm confident it was just a parable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXjLqhtnIRI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXjLqhtnIRI

ceejayoz 3y ago
Everyone was quite open about wanting Shokin gone. Biden isn't misspeaking here; he's stating the official policy of the US and EU at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin > Through 2015 and early 2016, domestic and international pressure (including from the IMF, the EU, and the EBRD) built for Shokin to be removed from office. The Obama administration withheld $1 billion in loan guarantees to pressure the Ukrainian government to remove Shokin from office.
- meeuwer 3y ago
  It's great when corruption and influence peddling can happen out in the open. When it can become the official policy. Right? > "The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors." Shokin continued, stating that, "On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation." Nothing fishy about any of this. Good, honest public servants doing their job.
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    Poroshenko very emphatically denied this on Fox News recently. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/25/biden-ukraine-impeachment-fox-news/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/25/biden-ukr...
    - meeuwer 3y ago
      He also emphatically denied any wrongdoing after being named in the Panama Papers. What's the point you're making?
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        The point is that the EU, IMF, US, and Ukraine itself appears to have wanted Shokin gone; he raided anti-corruption groups on pretenses; his prosecutors were demonstrably corrupt; public protests against him occurred, and Ukraine's parliament voted to get rid of him. In opposition to all those facts, we have... Shokin himself being grumpy over being fired.
        meeuwer 3y ago
        Just curious, how do you rationalize Hunter's employment at Burisma? Was it his business acumen or maybe background in natural gas? Or something else altogether?
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        The same mildly sleazy stuff that tends to happen with politicians' children; companies hoping to garner favor. Same reason Jenna Bush and Meghan McCain wind up working for big media conglomerates. Hunter Biden's hardly unique in this regard. What's in question is whether it works, which I suspect varies from politician to politician. The assertions of Joe Biden having acted based on Hunter's desires, thus far, don't seem compelling.
        meeuwer 3y ago
        A cushy job at a domestic propaganda outlet is a bit different from selling access to a top US official to foreign oligarchs. That's if you believe that it was strictly about 10% for the Big Guy and didn't involve undue political influence in the other direction, which is more than plausible judging by the level of political mobilization against the prosecutor guy.

ceejayoz 3y ago

Everyone was quite open about wanting Shokin gone. Biden isn't misspeaking here; he's stating the official policy of the US and EU at the time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Shokin > Through 2015 and early 2016, domestic and international pressure (including from the IMF, the EU, and the EBRD) built for Shokin to be removed from office. The Obama administration withheld $1 billion in loan guarantees to pressure the Ukrainian government to remove Shokin from office.

meeuwer 3y ago
It's great when corruption and influence peddling can happen out in the open. When it can become the official policy. Right? > "The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings, a natural gas firm active in Ukraine and Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors." Shokin continued, stating that, "On several occasions President Poroshenko asked me to have a look at the criminal case against Burisma and consider the possibility of winding down the investigative actions in respect of this company, but I refused to close this investigation." Nothing fishy about any of this. Good, honest public servants doing their job.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  Poroshenko very emphatically denied this on Fox News recently. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/25/biden-ukraine-impeachment-fox-news/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/09/25/biden-ukr...
  - meeuwer 3y ago
    He also emphatically denied any wrongdoing after being named in the Panama Papers. What's the point you're making?
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      The point is that the EU, IMF, US, and Ukraine itself appears to have wanted Shokin gone; he raided anti-corruption groups on pretenses; his prosecutors were demonstrably corrupt; public protests against him occurred, and Ukraine's parliament voted to get rid of him. In opposition to all those facts, we have... Shokin himself being grumpy over being fired.
      - meeuwer 3y ago
        Just curious, how do you rationalize Hunter's employment at Burisma? Was it his business acumen or maybe background in natural gas? Or something else altogether?
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        The same mildly sleazy stuff that tends to happen with politicians' children; companies hoping to garner favor. Same reason Jenna Bush and Meghan McCain wind up working for big media conglomerates. Hunter Biden's hardly unique in this regard. What's in question is whether it works, which I suspect varies from politician to politician. The assertions of Joe Biden having acted based on Hunter's desires, thus far, don't seem compelling.
        meeuwer 3y ago
        A cushy job at a domestic propaganda outlet is a bit different from selling access to a top US official to foreign oligarchs. That's if you believe that it was strictly about 10% for the Big Guy and didn't involve undue political influence in the other direction, which is more than plausible judging by the level of political mobilization against the prosecutor guy.