3 ms·

Most people don't really have a choice to switch to gas from electricity: it either runs to your home or it doesn't. Even having stored natural gas requires a y

Most people don't really have a choice to switch to gas from electricity: it either runs to your home or it doesn't. Even having stored natural gas requires a yard, so good luck if you live in that high density housing everyone wants more of. On the other hand, people with natural gas could switch to electricity if they wanted to, and if they had a large pile of money sitting around and felt compelled to spend all of it and get a little bit of it back on their heating bill. What I'm saying is that this is an argument that people who write building codes should be having, it has almost nothing to do with homeowners.

zdragnar 3y ago
Stored gas is usually propane, not natural gas. Nobody would choose propane over natural gas given the option, as it is much more expensive. I'm living in an area where propane is actually pretty cheap compared to other parts of the US, and it would still be cheaper to switch to natural gas if the utilities ever ran lines out to me.
- theossuary 3y ago
  Now that'd be an interesting comparison; Propane vs electricity + solar + batteries. I'd guess we're near the point electric could win there.
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    Depends on where you live, really. I'm near the great lakes, but I don't get lake effect snow. Even so, it's not unlikely for the sky to be cloudy and overcast for weeks around the coldest time of the year. When we do get a lot of snow, it isn't uncommon for the larger commercial solar installs to just go dormant for awhile. Rooftop is a bit better in that regard, but even so it isn't a question of solar+batteries+electric OR propane. You'd need propane just to keep up overnight to avoid an overwhelming electricity bill. Places that are farther south and which already rely on resistive heat for emergencies would be much better off going that route over propane.
jes5199 3y ago
I do hear about people replacing their furnaces with heat pumps, when the furnace reaches the end of its life span
mindslight 3y ago
I see the argument that buildings installing house wide resistive heating in cold climates is committing a similar type of shortsighted economic foolishness as say skimping on insulation (aka principle agent problem, bordering on fraud). But in general the job of building codes is to make sure what is built is safe and up to current standards, rather than making top-down policy decisions like gas vs heat pumps.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  As we did for light bulbs (amazingly!), the right way is to specify performance standards, not particular technologies. You base the standards on the best available today, and more often than not, a few years down the road, the best available exceeds the standard by a wide margin.
- toast0 3y ago
  > But in general the job of building codes is to make sure what is built is safe and up to current standards, rather than making top-down policy decisions like gas vs heat pumps. Building codes were traditionally about safety, but accessibility and energy efficiency are also important parts added over the past several decades. It's actually a reasonable way to make top-down gradual improvements to the housing stock. And it's regionally adapted as well; most places have code based on the international building code, with federal changes, state changes, and sometimes county or city changes. I don't necessarily agree that gas heating and cooking should be phased out, but prohibiting it in new construction is a reasonable way to do it, and putting it into building codes is a reasonable way to address new construction.

zdragnar 3y ago

Stored gas is usually propane, not natural gas. Nobody would choose propane over natural gas given the option, as it is much more expensive. I'm living in an area where propane is actually pretty cheap compared to other parts of the US, and it would still be cheaper to switch to natural gas if the utilities ever ran lines out to me.

theossuary 3y ago
Now that'd be an interesting comparison; Propane vs electricity + solar + batteries. I'd guess we're near the point electric could win there.
- zdragnar 3y ago
  Depends on where you live, really. I'm near the great lakes, but I don't get lake effect snow. Even so, it's not unlikely for the sky to be cloudy and overcast for weeks around the coldest time of the year. When we do get a lot of snow, it isn't uncommon for the larger commercial solar installs to just go dormant for awhile. Rooftop is a bit better in that regard, but even so it isn't a question of solar+batteries+electric OR propane. You'd need propane just to keep up overnight to avoid an overwhelming electricity bill. Places that are farther south and which already rely on resistive heat for emergencies would be much better off going that route over propane.

jes5199 3y ago

I do hear about people replacing their furnaces with heat pumps, when the furnace reaches the end of its life span

mindslight 3y ago

I see the argument that buildings installing house wide resistive heating in cold climates is committing a similar type of shortsighted economic foolishness as say skimping on insulation (aka principle agent problem, bordering on fraud). But in general the job of building codes is to make sure what is built is safe and up to current standards, rather than making top-down policy decisions like gas vs heat pumps.

PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
As we did for light bulbs (amazingly!), the right way is to specify performance standards, not particular technologies. You base the standards on the best available today, and more often than not, a few years down the road, the best available exceeds the standard by a wide margin.
toast0 3y ago
> But in general the job of building codes is to make sure what is built is safe and up to current standards, rather than making top-down policy decisions like gas vs heat pumps. Building codes were traditionally about safety, but accessibility and energy efficiency are also important parts added over the past several decades. It's actually a reasonable way to make top-down gradual improvements to the housing stock. And it's regionally adapted as well; most places have code based on the international building code, with federal changes, state changes, and sometimes county or city changes. I don't necessarily agree that gas heating and cooking should be phased out, but prohibiting it in new construction is a reasonable way to do it, and putting it into building codes is a reasonable way to address new construction.