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> but so far Bitcoin has been doing OK as a store of value No, it hasn't. A store of value is supposed to be stable, it's about volatility. By that same reason

> but so far Bitcoin has been doing OK as a store of value No, it hasn't. A store of value is supposed to be stable, it's about volatility. By that same reasoning you could argue that Apple or Tesla stock, or even the stock market in general, is a great store of value. But nobody would ever call it that, because it is far too volatile on a daily basis. Trying to argue that a vague long-term uptrend in prices makes something a store of value is just more intellectually dishonest cope by cryptobros who are desperate to defend this useless technology.

seydor 3y ago
Volatile compared to what? Dollars. The us government is able to steer dollar as it likes but that comes with violence, it's not "naturally" stable
josu 3y ago
>a vague long-term uptrend in prices makes something a store of value A stable and 100% predetermined issuance schedule, along with its scarcity, it's what makes Bitcoin a good store of value. The steady uptrend in prices is the consequence. >useless technology. Just because it's functionality is limited it doesn't make it useless. A store of value that doesn't require boring the planet, or building empty houses, seems like a great improvement to me. I think that you are conflating the cryptobro culture, with the true value that Bitcoin brings to the table.
- skulk 3y ago
  > A store of value that doesn't require boring the planet, or building empty houses, seems like a great improvement to me. Boring holes isn't tenable but using 15 GW of power is acceptable?
  - siftrics 3y ago
    Energy will continue to get cheaper and less scarce over the long term. This is a bad argument.
  - josu 3y ago
    It seems more efficient than what it is replacing: >This brings the gold mining industry’s 2020 total to 265 TWh of energy used and 145 Mt of CO2 produced if we use the DePaul study’s numbers and account for 1750 tons of jewelry. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/a-comparison-of-bitcoins-environmental-impact-with-that-of-gold-and-banking-2021-05-04 https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/a-comparison-of-bitcoins-env...
- throw0101c 3y ago
  > A stable and 100% predetermined issuance schedule, along with its scarcity, it's what makes Bitcoin a good store of value. The steady uptrend in prices is the consequence. "Steady"? What definition of "steady" are you using? It peaked at US$ 75,000/BTC in Spring 2021, dropped to $40,000/BTC in Summer 2021, went up to $80,000 in Autumn 2021, did a continuous slide down to the $30,000 range in late 2022 and stayed there (dipping all the way to $22,000), it's now been in the $35,000 range for the last few months of 2023, and has jumped to $45,000 range recently. * https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD/ IMHO that's even more ridiculous than gold (at least in the same time period): * https://goldbroker.com/charts/gold-price/usd#historical-chart https://goldbroker.com/charts/gold-price/usd#historical-char...
  - latchkey 3y ago
    > has jumped to $45,000 range $35,000
  - josu 3y ago
    The 4-year moving average is only up: https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/charts/4-yr-ma/ https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/charts/4-yr-ma/
  - woobar 3y ago
    It peaked at US$ 75,000/BTC in Spring 2021, dropped to $40,000/BTC in Summer 2021, went up to $80,000 in Autumn 2021, did a continuous slide down to the $30,000 range in late 2022 and stayed there (dipping all the way to $22,000), it's now been in the $35,000 range for the last few months of 2023, and has jumped to $45,000 range recently. * https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD/ I am not sure why did you pick random numbers that are not supported by your own chart to illustrate your point. BTC did not reach $75K or $80K, it dipped below $22K, and it is not at $45K now.
latchkey 3y ago
> A store of value is supposed to be stable Have you looked at the price of gold over the last 50-100 years?

seydor 3y ago

Volatile compared to what? Dollars. The us government is able to steer dollar as it likes but that comes with violence, it's not "naturally" stable

josu 3y ago

>a vague long-term uptrend in prices makes something a store of value A stable and 100% predetermined issuance schedule, along with its scarcity, it's what makes Bitcoin a good store of value. The steady uptrend in prices is the consequence. >useless technology. Just because it's functionality is limited it doesn't make it useless. A store of value that doesn't require boring the planet, or building empty houses, seems like a great improvement to me. I think that you are conflating the cryptobro culture, with the true value that Bitcoin brings to the table.

skulk 3y ago
> A store of value that doesn't require boring the planet, or building empty houses, seems like a great improvement to me. Boring holes isn't tenable but using 15 GW of power is acceptable?
- siftrics 3y ago
  Energy will continue to get cheaper and less scarce over the long term. This is a bad argument.
- josu 3y ago
  It seems more efficient than what it is replacing: >This brings the gold mining industry’s 2020 total to 265 TWh of energy used and 145 Mt of CO2 produced if we use the DePaul study’s numbers and account for 1750 tons of jewelry. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/a-comparison-of-bitcoins-environmental-impact-with-that-of-gold-and-banking-2021-05-04 https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/a-comparison-of-bitcoins-env...
throw0101c 3y ago
> A stable and 100% predetermined issuance schedule, along with its scarcity, it's what makes Bitcoin a good store of value. The steady uptrend in prices is the consequence. "Steady"? What definition of "steady" are you using? It peaked at US$ 75,000/BTC in Spring 2021, dropped to $40,000/BTC in Summer 2021, went up to $80,000 in Autumn 2021, did a continuous slide down to the $30,000 range in late 2022 and stayed there (dipping all the way to $22,000), it's now been in the $35,000 range for the last few months of 2023, and has jumped to $45,000 range recently. * https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD/ IMHO that's even more ridiculous than gold (at least in the same time period): * https://goldbroker.com/charts/gold-price/usd#historical-chart https://goldbroker.com/charts/gold-price/usd#historical-char...
- latchkey 3y ago
  > has jumped to $45,000 range $35,000
- josu 3y ago
  The 4-year moving average is only up: https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/charts/4-yr-ma/ https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/charts/4-yr-ma/
- woobar 3y ago
  It peaked at US$ 75,000/BTC in Spring 2021, dropped to $40,000/BTC in Summer 2021, went up to $80,000 in Autumn 2021, did a continuous slide down to the $30,000 range in late 2022 and stayed there (dipping all the way to $22,000), it's now been in the $35,000 range for the last few months of 2023, and has jumped to $45,000 range recently. * https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/BTC-USD/ I am not sure why did you pick random numbers that are not supported by your own chart to illustrate your point. BTC did not reach $75K or $80K, it dipped below $22K, and it is not at $45K now.

latchkey 3y ago

> A store of value is supposed to be stable Have you looked at the price of gold over the last 50-100 years?