3 ms·

Hmm. Okay that's nice and all. But isn't client-side adaptive bitrate switching the point of HLS and DASH? Given that server side software (encoders, live and

Hmm. Okay that's nice and all. But isn't client-side adaptive bitrate switching the point of HLS and DASH? Given that server side software (encoders, live and VOD origins) and clients (shaka, hls.js, dash reference client, set top boxes, smart TVs) exist ... doesn't it make more sense to set up http/3 and have it all in a well established standard?

pipo234 3y ago
Looks like a Will Law (of DASH fame) pet project. Interesting to see where it will lead. Seems to have sponsorship from some industry heavyweights Meta, Cisco, Twitch, Google, Akamai, Ericson. But notable absentee is of course: Apple (!) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-moq-transport/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-moq-transport/
- goeiedaggoeie 3y ago
  Delivery on web IOS specifically is the PITA. This post however uses CMAF and with IOS offering better API's for video from the next release there is a bit of hope that this protocol could be implemented without Apple needing to do it, once private relay on ios supports http3, all the bits needed to do this should be there.
  - englishm 3y ago
    The main thing we're waiting on is WebTransport in Safari. Apple has committed to adding it, and there's already been some work on it in WebKit, but we don't know when it will make its way into a Safari release yet.
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      Apple accepts external PR's for Webkit right? Couldn't someone external implement it?
      - withinboredom 3y ago
        At the risk of them rejecting it and wasting everyone's time?
kixelated 3y ago
ABR is absolutely required for distribution. MoQ also supports ABR, but additionally gives you the ability to also drop the tail of a GoP if a rendition switch is too slow, or no lower rendition exists. As for maintaining existing standards, it depends on your goals. If you're not trying to push boundaries then absolutely, HLS/DASH is great for quickly getting off the ground. But if you're looking for something in-between HLS and WebRTC then MoQ is compelling.
KaiserPro 3y ago
But as the article points out HTTP/3 is designed to be reliable. This is why TCP is not really great for realtime/low latency video. Re-transmission of old frames is the opposite what you want for live streaming. If you can't re-generate the frame from forward error correction, then you're shit out of luck. if you're hitting network throughput limits, wasting data on transmitting frames you cant display is not a good use of a limited resource.

pipo234 3y ago

Looks like a Will Law (of DASH fame) pet project. Interesting to see where it will lead. Seems to have sponsorship from some industry heavyweights Meta, Cisco, Twitch, Google, Akamai, Ericson. But notable absentee is of course: Apple (!) https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-moq-transport/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-moq-transport/

goeiedaggoeie 3y ago
Delivery on web IOS specifically is the PITA. This post however uses CMAF and with IOS offering better API's for video from the next release there is a bit of hope that this protocol could be implemented without Apple needing to do it, once private relay on ios supports http3, all the bits needed to do this should be there.
- englishm 3y ago
  The main thing we're waiting on is WebTransport in Safari. Apple has committed to adding it, and there's already been some work on it in WebKit, but we don't know when it will make its way into a Safari release yet.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Apple accepts external PR's for Webkit right? Couldn't someone external implement it?
    - withinboredom 3y ago
      At the risk of them rejecting it and wasting everyone's time?

kixelated 3y ago

ABR is absolutely required for distribution. MoQ also supports ABR, but additionally gives you the ability to also drop the tail of a GoP if a rendition switch is too slow, or no lower rendition exists. As for maintaining existing standards, it depends on your goals. If you're not trying to push boundaries then absolutely, HLS/DASH is great for quickly getting off the ground. But if you're looking for something in-between HLS and WebRTC then MoQ is compelling.

KaiserPro 3y ago

But as the article points out HTTP/3 is designed to be reliable. This is why TCP is not really great for realtime/low latency video. Re-transmission of old frames is the opposite what you want for live streaming. If you can't re-generate the frame from forward error correction, then you're shit out of luck. if you're hitting network throughput limits, wasting data on transmitting frames you cant display is not a good use of a limited resource.