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> And if we do implement UBI to such a degree that people are allowed to live a life completely without any physical need for traditional income. I think you'r

> And if we do implement UBI to such a degree that people are allowed to live a life completely without any physical need for traditional income. I think you're forgetting the B in UBI. The idea is to guarantee basic necessities, not to maintain a high quality of life.

financltravsty 3y ago
I don't believe I have forgotten. I'm assuming it will be able to pay for not-great-but-liveable housing, sufficient food, and healthcare. That is a life that I consider to be completely without any physical need for traditional income. Granted, there are people that want more material things, and they would be motivated to labor for those things. However, my intuition tells me they're not a majority -- or enough to continue supplanting the UBI coffers.
- nemomarx 3y ago
  I feel like a majority of people want to be able to afford new clothes, entertainment, and occasional luxuries like a dinner out or travel. Even if we have people who labor intermittently to save up for their next purchase like that you'd still see a pool of labor from that.
  - financltravsty 3y ago
    Now that I think about it, that is true. One quandary I have that might be interesting to explore is: are the material requirements of modern day people living in Western civilization something that is innate to humans' propensity for wanting more or something that has come about due to a variety of environmental factors that drove us to this outcome. And how will that shift if and when UBI is implemented? But I think I've replied too many times already; so I'll let someone else have at it, and stop my chattering.
- dataflow 3y ago
  What do you consider "sufficient"? If it's paying you just enough so you can have milk and eggs and bread every day, is that sufficient? Do you really think people would be willing to live a monotonous life for the rest of their lives? The point of UBI isn't to make it rain so that nobody has to work anymore. It's to make it so that nobody ends up on the streets just because they lost their job for a while. And a pleasant side effect is people will be able to invest more time into finding better jobs, educating themselves in new areas, etc. without fear of going homeless or broke. I'm not claiming funding isn't an issue (it most definitely is, as are a bunch of other things), but you're mixing up the funding aspect with the motivation aspect, which need not be tied so strongly together.

financltravsty 3y ago

I don't believe I have forgotten. I'm assuming it will be able to pay for not-great-but-liveable housing, sufficient food, and healthcare. That is a life that I consider to be completely without any physical need for traditional income. Granted, there are people that want more material things, and they would be motivated to labor for those things. However, my intuition tells me they're not a majority -- or enough to continue supplanting the UBI coffers.

nemomarx 3y ago
I feel like a majority of people want to be able to afford new clothes, entertainment, and occasional luxuries like a dinner out or travel. Even if we have people who labor intermittently to save up for their next purchase like that you'd still see a pool of labor from that.
- financltravsty 3y ago
  Now that I think about it, that is true. One quandary I have that might be interesting to explore is: are the material requirements of modern day people living in Western civilization something that is innate to humans' propensity for wanting more or something that has come about due to a variety of environmental factors that drove us to this outcome. And how will that shift if and when UBI is implemented? But I think I've replied too many times already; so I'll let someone else have at it, and stop my chattering.
dataflow 3y ago
What do you consider "sufficient"? If it's paying you just enough so you can have milk and eggs and bread every day, is that sufficient? Do you really think people would be willing to live a monotonous life for the rest of their lives? The point of UBI isn't to make it rain so that nobody has to work anymore. It's to make it so that nobody ends up on the streets just because they lost their job for a while. And a pleasant side effect is people will be able to invest more time into finding better jobs, educating themselves in new areas, etc. without fear of going homeless or broke. I'm not claiming funding isn't an issue (it most definitely is, as are a bunch of other things), but you're mixing up the funding aspect with the motivation aspect, which need not be tied so strongly together.