6 ms·

Microsoft and Intel are telling us we're holding it wrong. Laptops and PCs should behave like smartphones. The irony is that an Android tablet---about as smart

Microsoft and Intel are telling us we're holding it wrong. Laptops and PCs should behave like smartphones. The irony is that an Android tablet---about as smartphone-like as you can get with a laptop-sized display---never has heating problems while sleeping.

vel0city 3y ago
I've had bouts of battling hot laptop bags. It's almost always been software other than Microsoft or Intel causing the device to wake and start chugging away heavily. Usually some misconfigured security tool or bad drivers constantly sending wake events. Personally I really like having my device automatically connect to the Wi-Fi when I get to the office, reconnect VPN, get chat and email synced, get ssh sessions reconnected, etc all before I even unlock the machine. It's a great feature IMO, just every now and then there's some boneheaded app that decides 9am is the time to wake the machine and scan every file modified in the last several weeks regardless of the current power state.
- hawski 3y ago
  IMHO if Microsoft wanted this it is clearly them to blame. It is a bit like going back to the MS-DOS era where applications should behave as there was no memory protection. The simple/partial solution is: if the system is in S0ix (modern standby) state then under no circumstances it is allowed to get warmer than some reasonable temperature (i.e. 36°C / 97°F) - a fan should absolutely never spin up. That is clearly on Microsoft and Intel to omit such an obvious limitation.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    The problem usually isn't that its heating up while in that sleep state, the problem is applications then request to change the current state to a higher power state. Sure, keep S0ix in a low enough power state that it can easily be passively cooled and not allow it to get high enough. What's to stop that av software to once again decide "S0ix? Nah, need to scan NOW, WAKE UP!!!". If there's any way to change these states in software, the apps causing hot bags today will just move to call that instead.
    - hawski 3y ago
      I would argue it is still a problem with the sleep state if it is allowed to be changed by software without restrictions. If the user decided to put his machine in the S0ix state there should be no way other than opening the lid or pushing a button to change it. Maybe there could be a hatch to allow the user to select what has higher privileges. I would worry that the corporate mandate would make all kinds of things in there, so I would vote against that. In general either you fit inside the state or you do not get a ride.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        Ok, we limit it to only lid open events. So I'll just register my app as a laptop lid driver and emit a lid open event.
        hawski 3y ago
        AFAIU not every app can be a driver and most probably no app you installed without administrator rights. There could also be an easy restriction that there can be only one lid open driver or limited to the manufacturer. There are lots of things that could be tried and I will not excuse a billion dollar company that mandates S0ix in the first place. I guess also that most things that do wake the computer up aren't really doing anything fancy, but Windows just is too nice for them.

vel0city 3y ago

I've had bouts of battling hot laptop bags. It's almost always been software other than Microsoft or Intel causing the device to wake and start chugging away heavily. Usually some misconfigured security tool or bad drivers constantly sending wake events. Personally I really like having my device automatically connect to the Wi-Fi when I get to the office, reconnect VPN, get chat and email synced, get ssh sessions reconnected, etc all before I even unlock the machine. It's a great feature IMO, just every now and then there's some boneheaded app that decides 9am is the time to wake the machine and scan every file modified in the last several weeks regardless of the current power state.

hawski 3y ago
IMHO if Microsoft wanted this it is clearly them to blame. It is a bit like going back to the MS-DOS era where applications should behave as there was no memory protection. The simple/partial solution is: if the system is in S0ix (modern standby) state then under no circumstances it is allowed to get warmer than some reasonable temperature (i.e. 36°C / 97°F) - a fan should absolutely never spin up. That is clearly on Microsoft and Intel to omit such an obvious limitation.
- vel0city 3y ago
  The problem usually isn't that its heating up while in that sleep state, the problem is applications then request to change the current state to a higher power state. Sure, keep S0ix in a low enough power state that it can easily be passively cooled and not allow it to get high enough. What's to stop that av software to once again decide "S0ix? Nah, need to scan NOW, WAKE UP!!!". If there's any way to change these states in software, the apps causing hot bags today will just move to call that instead.
  - hawski 3y ago
    I would argue it is still a problem with the sleep state if it is allowed to be changed by software without restrictions. If the user decided to put his machine in the S0ix state there should be no way other than opening the lid or pushing a button to change it. Maybe there could be a hatch to allow the user to select what has higher privileges. I would worry that the corporate mandate would make all kinds of things in there, so I would vote against that. In general either you fit inside the state or you do not get a ride.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Ok, we limit it to only lid open events. So I'll just register my app as a laptop lid driver and emit a lid open event.
      - hawski 3y ago
        AFAIU not every app can be a driver and most probably no app you installed without administrator rights. There could also be an easy restriction that there can be only one lid open driver or limited to the manufacturer. There are lots of things that could be tried and I will not excuse a billion dollar company that mandates S0ix in the first place. I guess also that most things that do wake the computer up aren't really doing anything fancy, but Windows just is too nice for them.