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If you buy a Cybertruck, Tesla says you can't sell it for a year
- camillomiller 3y agoFreedom!
- Mountain_Skies 3y agofrom speculators running up prices.
- MakeThemMoney 3y agoThink of the children! I mean, the buyers!
- tgv 3y agoI'm in favor of consumer protection, but it should be a broad law, not a "EULA". However, in this case: what's against a bit of price jacking? Do we need to feel sorry for people who want to buy a Cybertruck?
- donatj 3y agoFrom what? Contracts?
- iteygib 3y agoTo sell something you bought.
- tacticaldev 3y agoThis isn't a new idea; Ferrari has been doing this for a "while".
- michaelteter 3y agoThe difference with Ferrari is that if you're a real Ferrari buyer, you will want to be a valued customer so you can have a shot at buying another (new) Ferrari in the future. As there are more customers than cars, always now, Ferrari can be selective in who they sell to. And with exotic cars now being mostly appreciating assets, it really is a privilege to be able to buy one new. Tesla is a very different story. While their new models are in higher demand than supply, they are not appreciating assets. And Tesla does not have a "great automotive history" as Ferrari does. It's quite possible that in 20 years, Tesla will be gone or on par with a typical car company in terms of brand value. There may be another hot electric mfg which produces the new models that people want. In fact, that is likely to be the case within 10 years.
- lupusreal 3y ago[dead]
- tacticaldev 3y agoIt's also worth mentioning that Ferrari also asks you to simply call them first, before selling it (within that first year). I've never bought a ferrari but it seems like you have some options depending on your needs/situation/etc.
- drcongo 3y agoThe other big difference is that if you buy a cyber truck you'll be the laughing stock of your town. Tesla know this, and know that everyone is going to want to get rid of it as soon as possible when kids start pointing and laughing at them in the street.
- fostware 3y agoOr kids will want to test the strength of the windows...
- michaelteter 3y ago
- michaelteter 3y agoI'm guessing this restriction wouldn't hold up in most (state) courts. Also, you would have to be a huge fanboy to accept a restriction like this. There's a reasonable chance that actual life with that truck might be less pleasant than imagined, and that selling it after a few months would be a reasonable desire (not just flipping it for $$$). That said, I think the effective scalping that goes on these days with limited quantity items is lowest common denominator human behavior. So given that some truck sales will go to people who merely intend to flip it for a profit, I can understand the desire to try to restrict the resale.
- yaseer 3y agoThis doesn't seem unreasonable for a limited supply product, to prevent price scalping. If you saw these terms for a console launch or graphics card launch, you wouldn't complain. It's probably not enforceable, but the idea isn't crazy. EDIT: I was referring to the resale clause. Just saw the remote deactivation point too, which really is awfully dystopian.
- mongol 3y agoI think it is unreasonable. A remote deactivation of your car if you sell what you paid full price for? I think at least they should be willing to buy it back from the customer.
- yaseer 3y agoOh man, I didn't read the remote deactivation part - that really is crazy! Preventing resale isn't so unusual, but having your property violated definitely is.
- olalonde 3y agoIt seems to me the correct solution to price scalping is to raise prices.
- rwmj 3y agoOr make more product.
- dspillett 3y agoThat has image consequences, making them look too expensive for more people compared to the competition. It isn't as simple as “the price the market will bear right now”, they have to consider the longer term effects of putting people off. The obvious answer to that is of course “then just make more, if there is enough to go around the scalpers won't make any/enough profit” but that has its own problems: the production processes are not yet scaling that way, perhaps due to quality issues caused by trying to speed up, perhaps due to limited amounts of specialist production-line equipment for the affected models, perhaps due to issues getting enough raw materials at a faster rate for the “right price”, perhaps a mix of all of the above (plus a little intentional generation of artificial product scarcity in the market). Assuming I'm right about process (and material sourcing) scaling issues being a significant part of the problem, charging more because the existence of scalpers indicates that (at the current production levels) they can would be like [artist of the moment] charging much more per place at concerts, or the events like the London Marathon charging double/triple/more for the base entry price instead of using a balloted entry system. They can't simply make more places available, and the two-tier system (the haves can have, the have-nots can't afford) resulting from higher prices would cause image souring and affect future interest & sales (and for those that genuinely care about the art/atmosphere/event at least as much as the money, may offend the economic morals of the artist/organisers too). The target end result is to be a mass production vehicle, not a low volume collectors item.
- underseacables 3y agoDiscussed previously https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38236701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38236701
- seydor 3y agoSo you are leasing
- meepmorp 3y agoBut without the upsides of leasing.
- baz00 3y agoIf I buy something surely I own it and can make that decision myself?
- squigz 3y agoCompanies seem to disagree that you own something if you buy it.
- baz00 3y agoThey are free to disagree with me. I will just break the products until I'm happy with them :)
- outlace 3y agoNothing is owned with unrestricted rights. I “own” my house but if I don’t do what the HOA says they can sue me. If I don’t pay my property taxes it can get taken away. Ownership is really just a specification of rights. So you’re paying for a set of rights and those can be negotiated.
- baz00 3y agoStatutory law defines what limitations corporations may apply to you. Ergo it's more complicated than an arbitrary restriction.
- hn_throwaway_69 3y agoEh, price scalping sucks. This is the lesser of two evils.
- Zambyte 3y agoYou would rather not own things you buy than have things sold at market price?
- sweettea 3y agoThis isnt new; I got a Mercedes van this year and had a 1-year no-sale clause in my purchase contract.
- thelastparadise 3y agoAnd why in God's name did you accept that?
- jpsouth 3y agoThey were probably planning on using it for a year or so. I don’t think I’d be put off buying a car with an agreement that said I couldn’t sell it within a year, the moment the car leaves the forecourt it’s already lost 20%, if not more anyway, unless I was hoping to flip a car(?) then what would the issue be?
- yowzadave 3y agoMaybe you realize it's a bad car for you, and want to get something different?
- waihtis 3y agothis is different because rocket man bad
- meepmorp 3y agoYou know Elon Musk is never going to love you, right?
- chx 3y agoCan they do this? I mean, they can decide to only provide maintenance and software upgrades to the original buyer in the first year. That's their business decision and the market will decide whether this makes their product less alluring or not. But if I buy something, it becomes my property and I can do whatever the hell I want to do with it. Or did I miss a memo?
- xwdv 3y agoYou cannot do whatever the hell you want with it, what is wrong with you? You agree to a terms and service and if you violate them you will be punished by having your car blacklisted and blocked from superchargers, updates, service at Tesla dealerships, warranty void, etc. Accept it.
- cptaj 3y agoYou missed the memo of tesla being anti-consumer as hell
- andreygrehov 3y agoI own a Model Y, and I disagree. This is the first time in my life a company has treated me so well. I mean, they pretty much assign a TPM to you who is always just one text message away. Another nice thing is that if anything in the car gets broken, you simply make a request through the app. A technician(s) comes to your place and fixes everything while you drink your tea and watch Netflix. Anti-consumer? Unless you meant something else, Tesla is hilariously pro-consumer.
- hkgjjgjfjfjfjf 3y ago[dead]
- wumms 3y ago> “You agree that, you will not sell or otherwise attempt to sell the Vehicle within the first year following your Vehicle’s delivery date,” without getting permission. Breaking the deal could result in your truck being remotely deactivated. This passage seems to have been removed from the linked PDF [0]. Might have been related to: "No Resellers; Discontinuation; Cancellation. Tesla and its affiliates sell cars directly to end-consumers, and we may unilaterally cancel any order that we believe has been made with a view toward resale of the Vehicle or that has otherwise been made in bad faith, and we’ll keep your Order Fee, Order Deposit and Transportation Fee." "If you are in default, we may, after any legally required notice or waiting period: (i) do anything to protect our interest in the Vehicle, including repossessing the Vehicle using legally permitted means, (ii) locate and disable the Vehicle electronically using our remote dynamic vehicle connection described in our Privacy Policy, [...]" [0] https://www.tesla.com/configurator/api/v3/terms?locale=en_US&model=m3&saleType=Sale https://www.tesla.com/configurator/api/v3/terms?locale=en_US...
- xwdv 3y agoAlthough you can’t sell it for a year, you can still sell someone an option to buy it after a year has passed for some agreed upon price and mileage. Or maybe you can do a lease-to-own type deal.
- 101008 3y agoSo people seems to be confusing two different aspects when buying a Tesla truck. You are buying the physical truck and the "suscription" to use with Tesla services (supercharges, updated, warranty, etc). Yes, you own the physical truck and you can do whatever you want with it. It's yours. You can destroy it, you can set it on fire, you can paint it as you want. And you can sell it before the year. But doing this last one (and some of the ones before) will break your agreement for the suscription/services part. I do not support this idea, although I understand where it is coming from. Just explainign this because a few comments are saying "I don't own the truck?" and yes, you do, but you don't own access to their services forever.
- drcongo 3y agoWhy would you want to continue using the "services" if you've sold the truck?
- bitshiftfaced 3y agoI take it that the person buying it will be less likely to want it.
- 101008 3y agoI guess the service is attached to the truck and not the person. So you sell the truck and the buyer cannot use the service for their new truck anymore.
- icepat 3y agoThis is why the idea of subscriptions embedded in physical products like cars needs to go.
- FirmwareBurner 3y agoBut it's THE Cybertruck from Tesla, the most anticipated status symbol from our meme lord and savior, the X-man himself, Elon Musk. People will line around the block to buy his subscription vehicles, no matter how silly they get, and because of that, every auto maker will follow suit.
- throwaway154 3y agoI hate scalpers. I'm too busy doing HFT to deal with the problems they make.
- mkl95 3y agoI can see quite a few people regretting buying such an original car (to put it in a non offensive way). It would be more fair to add a clause that doesn't let you resell it above a specific % over the original price.
- mannykannot 3y agoIt remains to be seen whether there will be a strong second-hand market for this vehicle in six month's time.
- vitus 3y agoThis is apparently a change to the order agreement. I can't see how it'd be held up in a court of law if they don't make people sign the new terms. (archive.org links to prevent those from changing from under me) v20211124 Cybertruck preorder terms: https://web.archive.org/web/20230614191305/https://www.tesla.com/configurator/api/v3/terms?locale=en_US&model=ct&saleType=Sale https://web.archive.org/web/20230614191305/https://www.tesla... v20220720 Model 3 order agreement (archived just yesterday): https://web.archive.org/web/20231113101113/https://www.tesla.com/configurator/api/v3/terms?locale=en_US&model=m3&saleType=Sale https://web.archive.org/web/20231113101113/https://www.tesla... Model 3 order agreement, live link (v20230201 at time of posting): https://www.tesla.com/configurator/api/v3/terms?locale=en_US&model=m3&saleType=Sale https://www.tesla.com/configurator/api/v3/terms?locale=en_US... It is notable that all models seem to have the new section about ordering for resale being banned, but none that share the reported 1-year limitation on resale for the cybertruck. Supposedly this is a new section titled "For Cybertruck Only" [0] but when I play around with the URL I find the preorder agreement for the cybertruck, and the other models don't seem to have the cybertruck-only section. [0] as reported by business insider: https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-sue-cybertruck-buyers-they-resell-in-first-year-2023-11 https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-sue-cybertruck-buyers-...
- jellicle 3y agoTesla is REALLY WORRIED about a price collapse for used Cybertrucks once owners experience them.
- adolph 3y agoI think that this is a hype-building technique on Tesla’s part
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ChrisArchitect 3y ago[dupe] Does no one read the site anymore? Lots more discussion over here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38237287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38237287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38236701 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38236701
- rkagerer 3y agoAnd there go the last vestiges of the concept of ownership.