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They're just fine voting for people who do believe those things

by mavhc 3y ago

mpweiher 3y ago
Even that turns out to not be accurate. Just as inaccurate as saying half the country thinks that massacring Jews is an "act of liberation", though there are obviously quite a few people who believe that and those are located on the left. Yes, there are people on the fringes that believe those things...and both of these fringes are very dangerous. I happen to share the belief that the fringes on the right are more dangerous, and certainly presented the more immediate threat when Trump was in power. However, I understand those who believe that the left fringes are more dangerous, and they do have a case. Both fringes present an existential threat to our liberal democracies, as they both have repudiated those values, so maybe those differences are not really meaningful. Left and right are not the problem. The fringes are. Both of them. And they feed off each other, so they can only be defeated together. If you want to defeat the right fringe, you must defeat the left fringe. If you want to defeat the left fringe, you must defeat the right fringe.
- mavhc 3y ago
  It's not even a fringe though, a large group voted for Trump as a long term goal to ban abortion, and most of them believe the "election was stolen" The left fringe mostly seems to think gendered public toilets should be converted to single cubicles that anyone can use, similar to the toilet in your own home
  - Ajedi32 3y ago
    Even Trump himself doesn't believe in banning abortion; he's criticized DeSantis' 6-week limit (which is also not a ban) as being too restrictive: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-labels-desantis-abortion-ban-a-terrible-mistake-riling-some-republicans https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-labels-desantis-...
  - concordDance 3y ago
    Equating "wants to ban abortion" with "thinks women's rights shouldn't exist" is a pretty textbook example of one of the problems with political discourse. Noncentral fallacy, conflation between "all of" and "exists" and presupposing in the definitions used that their side of the political argument is the correct one.

They're just fine voting for people who do believe those things

by mavhc 3y ago

They're just fine voting for people who do believe those things

Even that turns out to not be accurate. Just as inaccurate as saying half the country thinks that massacring Jews is an "act of liberation", though there are obviously quite a few people who believe that and those are located on the left. Yes, there are people on the fringes that believe those things...and both of these fringes are very dangerous. I happen to share the belief that the fringes on the right are more dangerous, and certainly presented the more immediate threat when Trump was in power. However, I understand those who believe that the left fringes are more dangerous, and they do have a case. Both fringes present an existential threat to our liberal democracies, as they both have repudiated those values, so maybe those differences are not really meaningful. Left and right are not the problem. The fringes are. Both of them. And they feed off each other, so they can only be defeated together. If you want to defeat the right fringe, you must defeat the left fringe. If you want to defeat the left fringe, you must defeat the right fringe.

mavhc 3y ago
It's not even a fringe though, a large group voted for Trump as a long term goal to ban abortion, and most of them believe the "election was stolen" The left fringe mostly seems to think gendered public toilets should be converted to single cubicles that anyone can use, similar to the toilet in your own home
- Ajedi32 3y ago
  Even Trump himself doesn't believe in banning abortion; he's criticized DeSantis' 6-week limit (which is also not a ban) as being too restrictive: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-labels-desantis-abortion-ban-a-terrible-mistake-riling-some-republicans https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-labels-desantis-...
- concordDance 3y ago
  Equating "wants to ban abortion" with "thinks women's rights shouldn't exist" is a pretty textbook example of one of the problems with political discourse. Noncentral fallacy, conflation between "all of" and "exists" and presupposing in the definitions used that their side of the political argument is the correct one.