5 ms·

it’s only been getting worse because half the country believes freedom and women’s rights, and marriage equality shouldnt exist, and that we dont need fair elec

it’s only been getting worse because half the country believes freedom and women’s rights, and marriage equality shouldnt exist, and that we dont need fair elections, so i dont think twitter has really improved anything.

concordDance 3y ago
That's a lot of heat and zero light you're contributing to this conversation. "But my political opponents are actually bad and believe bad things" is no novel insight, every single person here will have read something like it a hundred times before.
mpweiher 3y ago
Thank you for illustrating weberer's point so perfectly in a direct response! (For reference: no, half the country doesn't believe these things)
- mavhc 3y ago
  They're just fine voting for people who do believe those things
  - mpweiher 3y ago
    Even that turns out to not be accurate. Just as inaccurate as saying half the country thinks that massacring Jews is an "act of liberation", though there are obviously quite a few people who believe that and those are located on the left. Yes, there are people on the fringes that believe those things...and both of these fringes are very dangerous. I happen to share the belief that the fringes on the right are more dangerous, and certainly presented the more immediate threat when Trump was in power. However, I understand those who believe that the left fringes are more dangerous, and they do have a case. Both fringes present an existential threat to our liberal democracies, as they both have repudiated those values, so maybe those differences are not really meaningful. Left and right are not the problem. The fringes are. Both of them. And they feed off each other, so they can only be defeated together. If you want to defeat the right fringe, you must defeat the left fringe. If you want to defeat the left fringe, you must defeat the right fringe.
    - mavhc 3y ago
      It's not even a fringe though, a large group voted for Trump as a long term goal to ban abortion, and most of them believe the "election was stolen" The left fringe mostly seems to think gendered public toilets should be converted to single cubicles that anyone can use, similar to the toilet in your own home
      - Ajedi32 3y ago
        Even Trump himself doesn't believe in banning abortion; he's criticized DeSantis' 6-week limit (which is also not a ban) as being too restrictive: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-labels-desantis-abortion-ban-a-terrible-mistake-riling-some-republicans https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-labels-desantis-...
      - concordDance 3y ago
        Equating "wants to ban abortion" with "thinks women's rights shouldn't exist" is a pretty textbook example of one of the problems with political discourse. Noncentral fallacy, conflation between "all of" and "exists" and presupposing in the definitions used that their side of the political argument is the correct one.
rmak 3y ago
and the other half believes babies' rights shouldn't exist, only criminals should own guns and only Russians can steal elections.
- hef19898 3y ago
  None of those statements are even remotely true so. Gun control advocates specifically want to get guns out of criminals (I see domestic violence as a crime, some people, sadly, don't). "They" are currently prosecuting the former president and his croneys for trying to steel the election in Washington and Georgia (the latter already resulted in multiple guilzy pleads), and they advocate for better social security and health care which specifically benefits babies and mothers, especially in poorer families. Birth control, incl. abortions, are a central corner stone in that. And nobody is argueing for killing babies, there are term limits everywhere abortion is legal (as it should be, legal and, pun intended, well regulated). There is one side so that argues for arming the, mostly right wing, mob, using government to punish political opponents, build what basically amounts to concentration camps for yet to be specified people, deport millions...
  - kortilla 3y ago
    whoosh
- karlkatzke 3y ago
  We believe that babies' lives should have rights after birth, too, and if you look at infant mortality rates in states that whose politicians are against abortion, you see that obviously a fetus's right to live ends at birth.
  - concordDance 3y ago
    Now you're just unproductively shouting at each other the exact same slogans that have been shouted for decades. It is not new or interesting to anyone.

concordDance 3y ago

That's a lot of heat and zero light you're contributing to this conversation. "But my political opponents are actually bad and believe bad things" is no novel insight, every single person here will have read something like it a hundred times before.

mpweiher 3y ago

Thank you for illustrating weberer's point so perfectly in a direct response! (For reference: no, half the country doesn't believe these things)

mavhc 3y ago
They're just fine voting for people who do believe those things
- mpweiher 3y ago
  Even that turns out to not be accurate. Just as inaccurate as saying half the country thinks that massacring Jews is an "act of liberation", though there are obviously quite a few people who believe that and those are located on the left. Yes, there are people on the fringes that believe those things...and both of these fringes are very dangerous. I happen to share the belief that the fringes on the right are more dangerous, and certainly presented the more immediate threat when Trump was in power. However, I understand those who believe that the left fringes are more dangerous, and they do have a case. Both fringes present an existential threat to our liberal democracies, as they both have repudiated those values, so maybe those differences are not really meaningful. Left and right are not the problem. The fringes are. Both of them. And they feed off each other, so they can only be defeated together. If you want to defeat the right fringe, you must defeat the left fringe. If you want to defeat the left fringe, you must defeat the right fringe.
  - mavhc 3y ago
    It's not even a fringe though, a large group voted for Trump as a long term goal to ban abortion, and most of them believe the "election was stolen" The left fringe mostly seems to think gendered public toilets should be converted to single cubicles that anyone can use, similar to the toilet in your own home
    - Ajedi32 3y ago
      Even Trump himself doesn't believe in banning abortion; he's criticized DeSantis' 6-week limit (which is also not a ban) as being too restrictive: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-labels-desantis-abortion-ban-a-terrible-mistake-riling-some-republicans https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-labels-desantis-...
    - concordDance 3y ago
      Equating "wants to ban abortion" with "thinks women's rights shouldn't exist" is a pretty textbook example of one of the problems with political discourse. Noncentral fallacy, conflation between "all of" and "exists" and presupposing in the definitions used that their side of the political argument is the correct one.

rmak 3y ago

and the other half believes babies' rights shouldn't exist, only criminals should own guns and only Russians can steal elections.

hef19898 3y ago
None of those statements are even remotely true so. Gun control advocates specifically want to get guns out of criminals (I see domestic violence as a crime, some people, sadly, don't). "They" are currently prosecuting the former president and his croneys for trying to steel the election in Washington and Georgia (the latter already resulted in multiple guilzy pleads), and they advocate for better social security and health care which specifically benefits babies and mothers, especially in poorer families. Birth control, incl. abortions, are a central corner stone in that. And nobody is argueing for killing babies, there are term limits everywhere abortion is legal (as it should be, legal and, pun intended, well regulated). There is one side so that argues for arming the, mostly right wing, mob, using government to punish political opponents, build what basically amounts to concentration camps for yet to be specified people, deport millions...
- kortilla 3y ago
  whoosh
karlkatzke 3y ago
We believe that babies' lives should have rights after birth, too, and if you look at infant mortality rates in states that whose politicians are against abortion, you see that obviously a fetus's right to live ends at birth.
- concordDance 3y ago
  Now you're just unproductively shouting at each other the exact same slogans that have been shouted for decades. It is not new or interesting to anyone.