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GP is equating app stores with walled gardens. I am saying that this need not be the case and that you should keep the benefits while getting rid of the points

GP is equating app stores with walled gardens. I am saying that this need not be the case and that you should keep the benefits while getting rid of the points he is criticizing. > but doesn't counter anything GP says. It says that razing the earth and getting rid of the whole concept is overkill and his criticism should not be of app stores as such but of "gatekeepers" abusing their position.

grishka 3y ago
Package managers are not app stores. They are very different things. A package manager usually allows you to freely add non-default repositories — that alone makes it different enough. They do have their own shortcomings, like how library packages work, but that's ultimately out of scope of this particular discussion. I didn't even have package managers in mind when I was writing that comment.
- diffeomorphism 3y ago
  App stores are front-ends for managing/buying apps/packages, e.g. winget install Netflix will install netflix from the windows store. Click on settings to enable new sources, e.g. join the beta channel. They are the same thing just graphical.
  - grishka 3y ago
    Not the same thing. You can't add a custom repository in App Store or Google Play. They only ever install apps from Apple's and Google's servers. Getting your app published on those servers is obviously subject to their owners' whims. Meanwhile, you can just run brew tap grishka/grishka to add my personal repository to your homebrew configuration. Try doing that with mobile app stores. One might say that, ignoring some technical details, the functionality of package managers is a superset of the functionality of app stores.
    - kuschku 3y ago
      > Try doing that with mobile app stores F-Droid?
      - grishka 3y ago
        Sigh. Mainstream mobile app stores.
        MrDresden 3y ago
        You are conflating tools (apt, brew, pip) with stores (Play Store, Appstore, F-Droid). Android already has the ability to allow a tool to install from different sources (this is how F-droid functions, however only from their own single source).
        iggldiggl 3y ago
        > however only from their own single source F-Droid is actually both a tool as well as a repository (which is the one that's included by default in F-Droid the tool). You can add additional repositories to F-Droid the tool.
        MrDresden 3y ago
        I honestly did not know that was possible. Thanks!
    - diffeomorphism 3y ago
      > Not the same thing. You can't add a custom repository in App Store or Google Play. Exactly the point. The problem is that you are not allowed to do that (not a problem of can't). As pointed out by people in other comments, alternative app stores on android totally do have that functionality. So the problem is not app stores as such but google and apple being gatekeepers. Give me the option to add fdroid repos in google play.

grishka 3y ago

Package managers are not app stores. They are very different things. A package manager usually allows you to freely add non-default repositories — that alone makes it different enough. They do have their own shortcomings, like how library packages work, but that's ultimately out of scope of this particular discussion. I didn't even have package managers in mind when I was writing that comment.

diffeomorphism 3y ago
App stores are front-ends for managing/buying apps/packages, e.g. winget install Netflix will install netflix from the windows store. Click on settings to enable new sources, e.g. join the beta channel. They are the same thing just graphical.
- grishka 3y ago
  Not the same thing. You can't add a custom repository in App Store or Google Play. They only ever install apps from Apple's and Google's servers. Getting your app published on those servers is obviously subject to their owners' whims. Meanwhile, you can just run brew tap grishka/grishka to add my personal repository to your homebrew configuration. Try doing that with mobile app stores. One might say that, ignoring some technical details, the functionality of package managers is a superset of the functionality of app stores.
  - kuschku 3y ago
    > Try doing that with mobile app stores F-Droid?
    - grishka 3y ago
      Sigh. Mainstream mobile app stores.
      - MrDresden 3y ago
        You are conflating tools (apt, brew, pip) with stores (Play Store, Appstore, F-Droid). Android already has the ability to allow a tool to install from different sources (this is how F-droid functions, however only from their own single source).
        iggldiggl 3y ago
        > however only from their own single source F-Droid is actually both a tool as well as a repository (which is the one that's included by default in F-Droid the tool). You can add additional repositories to F-Droid the tool.
        MrDresden 3y ago
        I honestly did not know that was possible. Thanks!
  - diffeomorphism 3y ago
    > Not the same thing. You can't add a custom repository in App Store or Google Play. Exactly the point. The problem is that you are not allowed to do that (not a problem of can't). As pointed out by people in other comments, alternative app stores on android totally do have that functionality. So the problem is not app stores as such but google and apple being gatekeepers. Give me the option to add fdroid repos in google play.