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Video and audio evidence says otherwise. Unless you can produce sources where Elon claims sole credit for SpaceX milestones. I've been following SpaceX's progr

by xedeon 3y ago

Video and audio evidence says otherwise. Unless you can produce sources where Elon claims sole credit for SpaceX milestones. I've been following SpaceX's progress since 2005 on Kimbal's blogspot (yes that blogspot) updates [1]. Elon has always credited his team of engineers, ops and support staff. [1] https://kwajrockets.blogspot.com https://kwajrockets.blogspot.com

mcv 3y ago
But also himself. He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars. I have some doubts about that, although his influence on Starship and the Cybertruck seems to be larger than on previous models.
- xedeon 3y ago
  > He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars. I have some doubts about that. You can doubt all you want. This is easily verified. 1. https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929 https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929 2.https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1099411086711746560 https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1099411086711746560 3. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mueller https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mueller 4. https://youtu.be/aGOV5R7M1Js?t=1748 https://youtu.be/aGOV5R7M1Js?t=1748 As expected, you can't produce sources to support your claims.
  - mcv 3y ago
    A tweet without any context doesn't exactly prove much. No idea who is wrong about what there. I also never claimed any sources, I'm just giving my impression of him, which is that he's a bullshitter. But I can list a couple of things we do know about him: At Tesla, despite not being a founder of the company, he contractually established that he was allowed to call himself a founder. And then pushed the actual founders out. Online, we see him pick stupid internet fights, and post irresponsible tweets that got him slapped for stock manipulation. At Twitter, we've all seen his bizarre mismanagement, despite his original background in software development. We've recently heard that the Cybertruck was a bad decision that he personally pushed through at Tesla. So given all of that, of course it's still possible that his rocket engineering creds at SpaceX are real, but you really can't blame people for having some doubts about that. I don't expect anyone employed at SpaceX to spill the beans, but there's plenty of anonymous rumours on the internet about his actual role: https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/27rnwj/is_elon_personally_working_on_engineering_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/27rnwj/is_elon_pers... > Elon is indeed very involved in the design. The way they explained it is they give him a list of options to choose from and he picks the one he likes. Usually, it's the one the lead engineer wants, but sometimes it isn't, and Elon gets what he wants. That's reasonable enough for a CEO in a flat organisation, but it doesn't sound like he's doing the actual engineering, just picking from the options the engineers give him. I've also seen a (claimed, not verified) SpaceX employee say that SpaceX has people who's job it is to keep Elon happy and feel involved, because a happy Elon gives them the freedom to make the right decisions. He got this Tony Stark image in the media, and I think he's been leaning a bit too hard into it, and started to believe the image that he could do everything. And the history of Tesla shows that he's not above overstating his own role. Don't get me wrong: I love much of what he's done at Tesla and SpaceX; EVs wouldn't be where they are now without him, and rocketry in the US might well be dead without SpaceX. But he certainly has his share of character flaws as well.
    - xedeon 3y ago
      > A tweet without any context doesn't exactly prove much. No idea who is wrong about what there. The tweet was a response to the same claims you're making, the parent tweet is clearly there. It seems that you don't even know who Tom Mueller is. I linked Tom's Wikipedia bio for context, maybe you should take the time to read it. "Thomas John Mueller is an American aerospace engineer and rocket engine designer. He *was* a *founding* employee of SpaceX, an American aerospace manufacturer and space transportation services company headquartered in Hawthorne, California, and the founder and CEO of Impulse Space" > I don't expect anyone employed at SpaceX to spill the beans, but there's plenty of anonymous rumours on the internet about his actual role: Tom was already retired when he posted those tweets. So again, your claims are just patently false. Let's see...Your source is from an "anonymous rumour" and is more credible than a former/founding SpaceX employee? I have no words... > At Tesla, despite not being a founder of the company, he contractually established that he was allowed to call himself a founder. And then pushed the actual founders out. The Tesla Board of Directors did that, not Elon. But you knew that right? It's dishonest to attribute the success of the Tesla Roadster, Model S/X, and Model 3 ramp-up, as well as Tesla's current achievements, to Eberhard and Tarpenning. > But he certainly has his share of character flaws as well. Don't we all? Not a single person on this planet is flawless, and it's sanctimonious to think otherwise.
      - mcv 3y ago
        > the parent tweet is clearly there It is not clear how to navigate to the parent tweet. Take it up with the owner of the site, I guess. I know who Tom Mueller is, and I've addressed why that doesn't make him impartial. > Tom was already retired when he posted those tweets. According to your Wikipedia link "he retired from SpaceX on November 30, 2020". One of those tweets is from 2019, so your claims are patently false. > The Tesla Board of Directors did that, not Elon. And who was the chairman of that board of directors? Please. > It's dishonest to attribute the success of the Tesla Roadster, Model S/X, and Model 3 ramp-up, as well as Tesla's current achievements, to Eberhard and Tarpenning. And I did nothing of the sort. I gave Musk credit for that. I'm only pointing out he wanted to be credited for something he wasn't.
- concordDance 3y ago
  > He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars Every source I know of agrees this is true.
  - TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
    It's hard to understand how SpaceX can be such a success while Cybertruck and Twitter are such a shit show. (Let's ignore Hyperloop because he admitted that was always an anti-rail spoiler.) Based on his Tweet history, he comes across as astoundingly immature, thin-skinned, and easily distracted. He has: accused someone completely innocent of paedophilia for random reasons that are hard to fathom; denied that Covid was a problem; tweeted like a teenager about womens' boobs and limited math skills; lost at least 75% on his purchase of Twitter; suggested a literal dick measuring contest with Zuckerberg; claimed he was going to sell 10% of his Tesla stock to alleviate poverty and then awarded to it to a trust he owns; cynically hyped Dogecoin and (arguably) Tesla... And so on. I suppose someone like that might also be a genius rocket engineer. But if he is, it's quite a niche talent that doesn't seem to have transferred to his other projects.
    - concordDance 3y ago
      His speciality seems to be leading companies that solve tangible measurable hardware problems like "cheaply launch orbital rockets" and "make commercially viable long range fast electric car" (making cheap underground car tunnels is impossible so it doesnt really matter how good a hardware guy he is). I don't know why you'd think being good at a domain would transfer to other very different domains. There's no reason to think an amazing singer would be a good mathematician, why should a hardware production line maker have good taste in truck aesthetics?

by xedeon 3y ago

mcv 3y ago

But also himself. He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars. I have some doubts about that, although his influence on Starship and the Cybertruck seems to be larger than on previous models.

xedeon 3y ago
> He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars. I have some doubts about that. You can doubt all you want. This is easily verified. 1. https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929 https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929 2.https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1099411086711746560 https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1099411086711746560 3. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mueller https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mueller 4. https://youtu.be/aGOV5R7M1Js?t=1748 https://youtu.be/aGOV5R7M1Js?t=1748 As expected, you can't produce sources to support your claims.
- mcv 3y ago
  A tweet without any context doesn't exactly prove much. No idea who is wrong about what there. I also never claimed any sources, I'm just giving my impression of him, which is that he's a bullshitter. But I can list a couple of things we do know about him: At Tesla, despite not being a founder of the company, he contractually established that he was allowed to call himself a founder. And then pushed the actual founders out. Online, we see him pick stupid internet fights, and post irresponsible tweets that got him slapped for stock manipulation. At Twitter, we've all seen his bizarre mismanagement, despite his original background in software development. We've recently heard that the Cybertruck was a bad decision that he personally pushed through at Tesla. So given all of that, of course it's still possible that his rocket engineering creds at SpaceX are real, but you really can't blame people for having some doubts about that. I don't expect anyone employed at SpaceX to spill the beans, but there's plenty of anonymous rumours on the internet about his actual role: https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/27rnwj/is_elon_personally_working_on_engineering_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/27rnwj/is_elon_pers... > Elon is indeed very involved in the design. The way they explained it is they give him a list of options to choose from and he picks the one he likes. Usually, it's the one the lead engineer wants, but sometimes it isn't, and Elon gets what he wants. That's reasonable enough for a CEO in a flat organisation, but it doesn't sound like he's doing the actual engineering, just picking from the options the engineers give him. I've also seen a (claimed, not verified) SpaceX employee say that SpaceX has people who's job it is to keep Elon happy and feel involved, because a happy Elon gives them the freedom to make the right decisions. He got this Tony Stark image in the media, and I think he's been leaning a bit too hard into it, and started to believe the image that he could do everything. And the history of Tesla shows that he's not above overstating his own role. Don't get me wrong: I love much of what he's done at Tesla and SpaceX; EVs wouldn't be where they are now without him, and rocketry in the US might well be dead without SpaceX. But he certainly has his share of character flaws as well.
  - xedeon 3y ago
    > A tweet without any context doesn't exactly prove much. No idea who is wrong about what there. The tweet was a response to the same claims you're making, the parent tweet is clearly there. It seems that you don't even know who Tom Mueller is. I linked Tom's Wikipedia bio for context, maybe you should take the time to read it. "Thomas John Mueller is an American aerospace engineer and rocket engine designer. He *was* a *founding* employee of SpaceX, an American aerospace manufacturer and space transportation services company headquartered in Hawthorne, California, and the founder and CEO of Impulse Space" > I don't expect anyone employed at SpaceX to spill the beans, but there's plenty of anonymous rumours on the internet about his actual role: Tom was already retired when he posted those tweets. So again, your claims are just patently false. Let's see...Your source is from an "anonymous rumour" and is more credible than a former/founding SpaceX employee? I have no words... > At Tesla, despite not being a founder of the company, he contractually established that he was allowed to call himself a founder. And then pushed the actual founders out. The Tesla Board of Directors did that, not Elon. But you knew that right? It's dishonest to attribute the success of the Tesla Roadster, Model S/X, and Model 3 ramp-up, as well as Tesla's current achievements, to Eberhard and Tarpenning. > But he certainly has his share of character flaws as well. Don't we all? Not a single person on this planet is flawless, and it's sanctimonious to think otherwise.
    - mcv 3y ago
      > the parent tweet is clearly there It is not clear how to navigate to the parent tweet. Take it up with the owner of the site, I guess. I know who Tom Mueller is, and I've addressed why that doesn't make him impartial. > Tom was already retired when he posted those tweets. According to your Wikipedia link "he retired from SpaceX on November 30, 2020". One of those tweets is from 2019, so your claims are patently false. > The Tesla Board of Directors did that, not Elon. And who was the chairman of that board of directors? Please. > It's dishonest to attribute the success of the Tesla Roadster, Model S/X, and Model 3 ramp-up, as well as Tesla's current achievements, to Eberhard and Tarpenning. And I did nothing of the sort. I gave Musk credit for that. I'm only pointing out he wanted to be credited for something he wasn't.
concordDance 3y ago
> He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars Every source I know of agrees this is true.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
  It's hard to understand how SpaceX can be such a success while Cybertruck and Twitter are such a shit show. (Let's ignore Hyperloop because he admitted that was always an anti-rail spoiler.) Based on his Tweet history, he comes across as astoundingly immature, thin-skinned, and easily distracted. He has: accused someone completely innocent of paedophilia for random reasons that are hard to fathom; denied that Covid was a problem; tweeted like a teenager about womens' boobs and limited math skills; lost at least 75% on his purchase of Twitter; suggested a literal dick measuring contest with Zuckerberg; claimed he was going to sell 10% of his Tesla stock to alleviate poverty and then awarded to it to a trust he owns; cynically hyped Dogecoin and (arguably) Tesla... And so on. I suppose someone like that might also be a genius rocket engineer. But if he is, it's quite a niche talent that doesn't seem to have transferred to his other projects.
  - concordDance 3y ago
    His speciality seems to be leading companies that solve tangible measurable hardware problems like "cheaply launch orbital rockets" and "make commercially viable long range fast electric car" (making cheap underground car tunnels is impossible so it doesnt really matter how good a hardware guy he is). I don't know why you'd think being good at a domain would transfer to other very different domains. There's no reason to think an amazing singer would be a good mathematician, why should a hardware production line maker have good taste in truck aesthetics?