4 ms·

I wonder what the "rules" are for things like tracking beacons. They're being broadcast, and they're almost certainly collected without consent everywhere we go

I wonder what the "rules" are for things like tracking beacons. They're being broadcast, and they're almost certainly collected without consent everywhere we go. I happen to live at a junction where my home is regularly surrounded by large numbers of Bluetooth devices; I had considered setting up a BLE tracker purely for "fun" to see what I could collect and discern from the data. For example, one thing I'm certain of, is a correlation between poor air quality in my home and the arrival of these Bluetooth devices in the area.

wutwutwat 3y ago
> So a hidden industry of third-party location-marketing firms has proliferated in response. These companies take their beacon tracking code and bundle it into a toolkit developers can use. The makers of many popular apps, such as those for news or weather updates, insert these toolkits into their apps > Location marketing aims to understand “online-offline attribution.” If a Starbucks coffee ad is sent to your email, for example, marketers want to know if you actually went there and bought a coffee. The only way to know is to monitor your online and offline habits at all times. > Beacons are also being used for smart cities initiatives. The location company Gimbal provided beacons for LinkNYC kiosks that provoked privacy concerns about tracking passers-by. Beacon initiatives have been started in other cities, including Amsterdam (in partnership with Google), London and Norwich. https://web.archive.org/web/20231027211008/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-wireless-tracking-privacy.html https://web.archive.org/web/20231027211008/https://www.nytim... It's the wild west. We're illegally surveilled every day and the government uses the same data in product that allow them to track people without warrants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_Reveal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_Reveal There are no "rules" against receiving a signal. All you need is a radio that can pick them up. The rules apply to those broadcasting things afaik
- jon-wood 3y ago
  While I feel like the beacon tracking SDKs in apps are as slimy as going the other way round, those SDKs aren’t watching for your device’s beacon. They listen for BLE beacons with known addresses the company has place on their premises and use that to determine you’ve been to that particular location. I’m sure some of them are doing it at a larger scale and tracking all the beacons you see to provide a view on all the places you’ve been. Almost all devices you’re carrying with you will regularly rotate the ID they transmit in order to avoid correlation, so reading those beacons in a location can’t really be used for much beyond rough numbers of devices.
  - wutwutwat 3y ago
    > Almost all devices you’re carrying with you will regularly rotate the ID they transmit in order to avoid correlation, so reading those beacons in a location can’t really be used for much beyond rough numbers of devices. Maybe that's true for those devices, but it doesn't protect you if your apps are tracking beacons as you encounter them in the wild. Your mac changing doesn't change that it saw a beacon somewhere, and attached that to your account in the app you're signed in. Turns out, that's exactly what they do... > But these apps may also be tracking you in less obvious ways. As the New York Times noted last June, many retailers deploy Bluetooth “beacons” throughout stores. If you have the store’s app installed on your device, the beacons send it signals. The app then knows where in the store you are and sends you information (like coupons or store maps) specific to that location. *But this also means the app can track your movements as you pass by the beacons. Depending on where and how the beacons are placed, your location can be measured in inches.* Some device manufacturers have wised up to this practice; for instance, the iPhone’s newest operating system requires apps to get your permission to use Bluetooth. https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/12/19/21011527/retail-tracking-apps-wifi-bluetooth-facebook-ads https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/12/19/21011527/retail-tracki... > Retailers can send that data to services like LiveRamp to match it with your online identity https://liveramp.com/ https://liveramp.com/
numpad0 3y ago
Depends on local laws and jurisdiction. US famously has no communication secrecy laws, some countries states broadcast is free to listen, etc. But I think the point made in GP is tracking people, although indirectly, could qualify as `human subject research`, the same technical category as Stanford prison experiment, MKULTRA project, standard website A/B testing, etc. I don't think it's going to be a problem per se, but can be an opportunity to discuss and learn about ethics and processes.
- alias_neo 3y ago
  Ah interesting point I hadn't thought about/considered.
rokkamokka 3y ago
I don't understand your last paragraph. Do you mean it correlates to lots of internal combustion engines nearby (e.g. pollution)? How else would this possibly affect your air quality?
- alias_neo 3y ago
  You understood perfectly.

wutwutwat 3y ago

> So a hidden industry of third-party location-marketing firms has proliferated in response. These companies take their beacon tracking code and bundle it into a toolkit developers can use. The makers of many popular apps, such as those for news or weather updates, insert these toolkits into their apps > Location marketing aims to understand “online-offline attribution.” If a Starbucks coffee ad is sent to your email, for example, marketers want to know if you actually went there and bought a coffee. The only way to know is to monitor your online and offline habits at all times. > Beacons are also being used for smart cities initiatives. The location company Gimbal provided beacons for LinkNYC kiosks that provoked privacy concerns about tracking passers-by. Beacon initiatives have been started in other cities, including Amsterdam (in partnership with Google), London and Norwich. https://web.archive.org/web/20231027211008/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/14/opinion/bluetooth-wireless-tracking-privacy.html https://web.archive.org/web/20231027211008/https://www.nytim... It's the wild west. We're illegally surveilled every day and the government uses the same data in product that allow them to track people without warrants https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_Reveal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_Reveal There are no "rules" against receiving a signal. All you need is a radio that can pick them up. The rules apply to those broadcasting things afaik

jon-wood 3y ago
While I feel like the beacon tracking SDKs in apps are as slimy as going the other way round, those SDKs aren’t watching for your device’s beacon. They listen for BLE beacons with known addresses the company has place on their premises and use that to determine you’ve been to that particular location. I’m sure some of them are doing it at a larger scale and tracking all the beacons you see to provide a view on all the places you’ve been. Almost all devices you’re carrying with you will regularly rotate the ID they transmit in order to avoid correlation, so reading those beacons in a location can’t really be used for much beyond rough numbers of devices.
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  > Almost all devices you’re carrying with you will regularly rotate the ID they transmit in order to avoid correlation, so reading those beacons in a location can’t really be used for much beyond rough numbers of devices. Maybe that's true for those devices, but it doesn't protect you if your apps are tracking beacons as you encounter them in the wild. Your mac changing doesn't change that it saw a beacon somewhere, and attached that to your account in the app you're signed in. Turns out, that's exactly what they do... > But these apps may also be tracking you in less obvious ways. As the New York Times noted last June, many retailers deploy Bluetooth “beacons” throughout stores. If you have the store’s app installed on your device, the beacons send it signals. The app then knows where in the store you are and sends you information (like coupons or store maps) specific to that location. *But this also means the app can track your movements as you pass by the beacons. Depending on where and how the beacons are placed, your location can be measured in inches.* Some device manufacturers have wised up to this practice; for instance, the iPhone’s newest operating system requires apps to get your permission to use Bluetooth. https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/12/19/21011527/retail-tracking-apps-wifi-bluetooth-facebook-ads https://www.vox.com/recode/2019/12/19/21011527/retail-tracki... > Retailers can send that data to services like LiveRamp to match it with your online identity https://liveramp.com/ https://liveramp.com/

numpad0 3y ago

Depends on local laws and jurisdiction. US famously has no communication secrecy laws, some countries states broadcast is free to listen, etc. But I think the point made in GP is tracking people, although indirectly, could qualify as `human subject research`, the same technical category as Stanford prison experiment, MKULTRA project, standard website A/B testing, etc. I don't think it's going to be a problem per se, but can be an opportunity to discuss and learn about ethics and processes.

alias_neo 3y ago
Ah interesting point I hadn't thought about/considered.

rokkamokka 3y ago

I don't understand your last paragraph. Do you mean it correlates to lots of internal combustion engines nearby (e.g. pollution)? How else would this possibly affect your air quality?

alias_neo 3y ago
You understood perfectly.