3 ms·

One thing that would go a long way would be the return of S3.

by hawski 3y ago

imp0cat 3y ago
This. It seems to me that nowadays, you can either have a well-behaved older machine or a Ryzen-equipped mobile powerhorse that will glitch every now and then. Unfortunately for me, recent AMD's offerings have greatly decreased the attractiveness of older laptops. But be warned, you gotta take the good with the bad and accept that a modern laptop might wake up at any time (even when stored in your bag).
- baq 3y ago
  I could perhaps tolerate the wakeup, but it should notice it's in the backpack with a lid closed sensor and a thermometer and maybe go to sleep again instead of trying to melt itself and set the car or house on fire? Just throwing out this million-dollar idea for free here.
  - PennRobotics 3y ago
    Microsoft and Intel are telling us we're holding it wrong. Laptops and PCs should behave like smartphones. The irony is that an Android tablet---about as smartphone-like as you can get with a laptop-sized display---never has heating problems while sleeping.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      I've had bouts of battling hot laptop bags. It's almost always been software other than Microsoft or Intel causing the device to wake and start chugging away heavily. Usually some misconfigured security tool or bad drivers constantly sending wake events. Personally I really like having my device automatically connect to the Wi-Fi when I get to the office, reconnect VPN, get chat and email synced, get ssh sessions reconnected, etc all before I even unlock the machine. It's a great feature IMO, just every now and then there's some boneheaded app that decides 9am is the time to wake the machine and scan every file modified in the last several weeks regardless of the current power state.
      - hawski 3y ago
        IMHO if Microsoft wanted this it is clearly them to blame. It is a bit like going back to the MS-DOS era where applications should behave as there was no memory protection. The simple/partial solution is: if the system is in S0ix (modern standby) state then under no circumstances it is allowed to get warmer than some reasonable temperature (i.e. 36°C / 97°F) - a fan should absolutely never spin up. That is clearly on Microsoft and Intel to omit such an obvious limitation.
        vel0city 3y ago
        The problem usually isn't that its heating up while in that sleep state, the problem is applications then request to change the current state to a higher power state. Sure, keep S0ix in a low enough power state that it can easily be passively cooled and not allow it to get high enough. What's to stop that av software to once again decide "S0ix? Nah, need to scan NOW, WAKE UP!!!". If there's any way to change these states in software, the apps causing hot bags today will just move to call that instead.
        hawski 3y ago
        I would argue it is still a problem with the sleep state if it is allowed to be changed by software without restrictions. If the user decided to put his machine in the S0ix state there should be no way other than opening the lid or pushing a button to change it. Maybe there could be a hatch to allow the user to select what has higher privileges. I would worry that the corporate mandate would make all kinds of things in there, so I would vote against that. In general either you fit inside the state or you do not get a ride.
        vel0city 3y ago
        Ok, we limit it to only lid open events. So I'll just register my app as a laptop lid driver and emit a lid open event.
        3y ago
PennRobotics 3y ago
Are there any current laptop models with S3? Desktop?

One thing that would go a long way would be the return of S3.

by hawski 3y ago

One thing that would go a long way would be the return of S3.

This. It seems to me that nowadays, you can either have a well-behaved older machine or a Ryzen-equipped mobile powerhorse that will glitch every now and then. Unfortunately for me, recent AMD's offerings have greatly decreased the attractiveness of older laptops. But be warned, you gotta take the good with the bad and accept that a modern laptop might wake up at any time (even when stored in your bag).

baq 3y ago
I could perhaps tolerate the wakeup, but it should notice it's in the backpack with a lid closed sensor and a thermometer and maybe go to sleep again instead of trying to melt itself and set the car or house on fire? Just throwing out this million-dollar idea for free here.
- PennRobotics 3y ago
  Microsoft and Intel are telling us we're holding it wrong. Laptops and PCs should behave like smartphones. The irony is that an Android tablet---about as smartphone-like as you can get with a laptop-sized display---never has heating problems while sleeping.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    I've had bouts of battling hot laptop bags. It's almost always been software other than Microsoft or Intel causing the device to wake and start chugging away heavily. Usually some misconfigured security tool or bad drivers constantly sending wake events. Personally I really like having my device automatically connect to the Wi-Fi when I get to the office, reconnect VPN, get chat and email synced, get ssh sessions reconnected, etc all before I even unlock the machine. It's a great feature IMO, just every now and then there's some boneheaded app that decides 9am is the time to wake the machine and scan every file modified in the last several weeks regardless of the current power state.
    - hawski 3y ago
      IMHO if Microsoft wanted this it is clearly them to blame. It is a bit like going back to the MS-DOS era where applications should behave as there was no memory protection. The simple/partial solution is: if the system is in S0ix (modern standby) state then under no circumstances it is allowed to get warmer than some reasonable temperature (i.e. 36°C / 97°F) - a fan should absolutely never spin up. That is clearly on Microsoft and Intel to omit such an obvious limitation.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        The problem usually isn't that its heating up while in that sleep state, the problem is applications then request to change the current state to a higher power state. Sure, keep S0ix in a low enough power state that it can easily be passively cooled and not allow it to get high enough. What's to stop that av software to once again decide "S0ix? Nah, need to scan NOW, WAKE UP!!!". If there's any way to change these states in software, the apps causing hot bags today will just move to call that instead.
        hawski 3y ago
        I would argue it is still a problem with the sleep state if it is allowed to be changed by software without restrictions. If the user decided to put his machine in the S0ix state there should be no way other than opening the lid or pushing a button to change it. Maybe there could be a hatch to allow the user to select what has higher privileges. I would worry that the corporate mandate would make all kinds of things in there, so I would vote against that. In general either you fit inside the state or you do not get a ride.
        vel0city 3y ago
        Ok, we limit it to only lid open events. So I'll just register my app as a laptop lid driver and emit a lid open event.
        3y ago

PennRobotics 3y ago

Are there any current laptop models with S3? Desktop?