10 ms·

To me it’s the opposite, one mans dream to initiate and achieve space travel is much more romantic than a government space programs which is more about nation b

by dsco 3y ago

To me it’s the opposite, one mans dream to initiate and achieve space travel is much more romantic than a government space programs which is more about nation building.

marmakoide 3y ago
That's not one man dream, it's a team of engineers and managers funded by a rich guy who likes what they can do. Some serious backing from the US government is part of it with research work, contracts and grants. The dream is collective
- mcv 3y ago
  He loves to pretend it's one man's dream, though.
  - xedeon 3y ago
    Video and audio evidence says otherwise. Unless you can produce sources where Elon claims sole credit for SpaceX milestones. I've been following SpaceX's progress since 2005 on Kimbal's blogspot (yes that blogspot) updates [1]. Elon has always credited his team of engineers, ops and support staff. [1] https://kwajrockets.blogspot.com https://kwajrockets.blogspot.com
    - mcv 3y ago
      But also himself. He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars. I have some doubts about that, although his influence on Starship and the Cybertruck seems to be larger than on previous models.
      - xedeon 3y ago
        > He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars. I have some doubts about that. You can doubt all you want. This is easily verified. 1. https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929 https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929 2.https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1099411086711746560 https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1099411086711746560 3. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mueller https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mueller 4. https://youtu.be/aGOV5R7M1Js?t=1748 https://youtu.be/aGOV5R7M1Js?t=1748 As expected, you can't produce sources to support your claims.
        mcv 3y ago
        A tweet without any context doesn't exactly prove much. No idea who is wrong about what there. I also never claimed any sources, I'm just giving my impression of him, which is that he's a bullshitter. But I can list a couple of things we do know about him: At Tesla, despite not being a founder of the company, he contractually established that he was allowed to call himself a founder. And then pushed the actual founders out. Online, we see him pick stupid internet fights, and post irresponsible tweets that got him slapped for stock manipulation. At Twitter, we've all seen his bizarre mismanagement, despite his original background in software development. We've recently heard that the Cybertruck was a bad decision that he personally pushed through at Tesla. So given all of that, of course it's still possible that his rocket engineering creds at SpaceX are real, but you really can't blame people for having some doubts about that. I don't expect anyone employed at SpaceX to spill the beans, but there's plenty of anonymous rumours on the internet about his actual role: https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/27rnwj/is_elon_personally_working_on_engineering_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/27rnwj/is_elon_pers... > Elon is indeed very involved in the design. The way they explained it is they give him a list of options to choose from and he picks the one he likes. Usually, it's the one the lead engineer wants, but sometimes it isn't, and Elon gets what he wants. That's reasonable enough for a CEO in a flat organisation, but it doesn't sound like he's doing the actual engineering, just picking from the options the engineers give him. I've also seen a (claimed, not verified) SpaceX employee say that SpaceX has people who's job it is to keep Elon happy and feel involved, because a happy Elon gives them the freedom to make the right decisions. He got this Tony Stark image in the media, and I think he's been leaning a bit too hard into it, and started to believe the image that he could do everything. And the history of Tesla shows that he's not above overstating his own role. Don't get me wrong: I love much of what he's done at Tesla and SpaceX; EVs wouldn't be where they are now without him, and rocketry in the US might well be dead without SpaceX. But he certainly has his share of character flaws as well.
        xedeon 3y ago
        > A tweet without any context doesn't exactly prove much. No idea who is wrong about what there. The tweet was a response to the same claims you're making, the parent tweet is clearly there. It seems that you don't even know who Tom Mueller is. I linked Tom's Wikipedia bio for context, maybe you should take the time to read it. "Thomas John Mueller is an American aerospace engineer and rocket engine designer. He *was* a *founding* employee of SpaceX, an American aerospace manufacturer and space transportation services company headquartered in Hawthorne, California, and the founder and CEO of Impulse Space" > I don't expect anyone employed at SpaceX to spill the beans, but there's plenty of anonymous rumours on the internet about his actual role: Tom was already retired when he posted those tweets. So again, your claims are just patently false. Let's see...Your source is from an "anonymous rumour" and is more credible than a former/founding SpaceX employee? I have no words... > At Tesla, despite not being a founder of the company, he contractually established that he was allowed to call himself a founder. And then pushed the actual founders out. The Tesla Board of Directors did that, not Elon. But you knew that right? It's dishonest to attribute the success of the Tesla Roadster, Model S/X, and Model 3 ramp-up, as well as Tesla's current achievements, to Eberhard and Tarpenning. > But he certainly has his share of character flaws as well. Don't we all? Not a single person on this planet is flawless, and it's sanctimonious to think otherwise.
      - concordDance 3y ago
        > He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars Every source I know of agrees this is true.
        TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
        It's hard to understand how SpaceX can be such a success while Cybertruck and Twitter are such a shit show. (Let's ignore Hyperloop because he admitted that was always an anti-rail spoiler.) Based on his Tweet history, he comes across as astoundingly immature, thin-skinned, and easily distracted. He has: accused someone completely innocent of paedophilia for random reasons that are hard to fathom; denied that Covid was a problem; tweeted like a teenager about womens' boobs and limited math skills; lost at least 75% on his purchase of Twitter; suggested a literal dick measuring contest with Zuckerberg; claimed he was going to sell 10% of his Tesla stock to alleviate poverty and then awarded to it to a trust he owns; cynically hyped Dogecoin and (arguably) Tesla... And so on. I suppose someone like that might also be a genius rocket engineer. But if he is, it's quite a niche talent that doesn't seem to have transferred to his other projects.
        concordDance 3y ago
        His speciality seems to be leading companies that solve tangible measurable hardware problems like "cheaply launch orbital rockets" and "make commercially viable long range fast electric car" (making cheap underground car tunnels is impossible so it doesnt really matter how good a hardware guy he is). I don't know why you'd think being good at a domain would transfer to other very different domains. There's no reason to think an amazing singer would be a good mathematician, why should a hardware production line maker have good taste in truck aesthetics?
  - mlindner 3y ago
    I'm really tired of this claim. Every single time its made its entirely a figment of the writer's imagination, because there is no quote you can find of Elon attributing the success to himself. In fact when people attribute SpaceX's success to him in interviews he almost universally immediately deflects that praise to the people at SpaceX. I've seen that personally in numerous interviews over the last decade and a half I've been following SpaceX.
- agent327 3y ago
  Would any of it have happened without Elon Musk? Sure, there are many people who work in the organisation that he built that help him achieve his vision, but none of that would have existed without him challenging the world to an impossible dream ("live on Mars!"). Without Elon Musk, the space industry would still have been focused on SLS-style projects: slow to develop and impossibly expensive, the domain of only one or two governments, and always at the mercy of the next administrations' priorities. Instead, if he succeeds, humanity will be transformed, from a species that barely dips its toes into space, to one that can finally begin to truly explore the solar system. It's as much the start of a new age as was the voyage of Columbus. Giving Elon Musk credit for this is certainly not misplaced. Denying him that credit because you disagree with him politically (as another poster suggested)... I have no words for that, it's just so ridiculous. This is the pinnacle of human development right here, and you would deny it because the guy votes Republican? You know, like literally half the people in the country?
  - defrost 3y ago
    > You know, like literally half the people in the country? I have no opinion on Musk or the rest of your comment, but as a simple matter of factual data it's been two decades since US Republicans could claim a slight edge on US Democrats in the popular vote (percentage of entire voting population) and four decades since they had any significant support. For a good while Republican voters have been less than half the country and were it not for the uneven weighting of geographic areas and a domination of party controlled gerrymandering oportunities they would have even less political success than they have seen. That's just simple psephology fo you.
    - philwelch 3y ago
      In 2022, the nationwide popular vote for the House of Representatives was 54,506,136 for Republicans and 51,477,313 for Democrats. By percentage the Republicans won 50.6% of the vote and Democrats won 47.8%.
      - defrost 3y ago
- Dig1t 3y ago
  Musk's title is chief engineer, he has stated many times in interviews, and has been corroborated by other spacex engineers, that all engineering decisions go through him.
unethical_ban 3y ago
Nations are the societies we live in, so collective action is pretty neat in my book.

by dsco 3y ago

To me it’s the opposite, one mans dream to initiate and achieve space travel is much more romantic than a government space programs which is more about nation building.

marmakoide 3y ago

That's not one man dream, it's a team of engineers and managers funded by a rich guy who likes what they can do. Some serious backing from the US government is part of it with research work, contracts and grants. The dream is collective

mcv 3y ago
He loves to pretend it's one man's dream, though.
- xedeon 3y ago
  Video and audio evidence says otherwise. Unless you can produce sources where Elon claims sole credit for SpaceX milestones. I've been following SpaceX's progress since 2005 on Kimbal's blogspot (yes that blogspot) updates [1]. Elon has always credited his team of engineers, ops and support staff. [1] https://kwajrockets.blogspot.com https://kwajrockets.blogspot.com
  - mcv 3y ago
    But also himself. He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars. I have some doubts about that, although his influence on Starship and the Cybertruck seems to be larger than on previous models.
    - xedeon 3y ago
      > He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars. I have some doubts about that. You can doubt all you want. This is easily verified. 1. https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929 https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1512919230689148929 2.https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1099411086711746560 https://twitter.com/lrocket/status/1099411086711746560 3. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mueller https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mueller 4. https://youtu.be/aGOV5R7M1Js?t=1748 https://youtu.be/aGOV5R7M1Js?t=1748 As expected, you can't produce sources to support your claims.
      - mcv 3y ago
        A tweet without any context doesn't exactly prove much. No idea who is wrong about what there. I also never claimed any sources, I'm just giving my impression of him, which is that he's a bullshitter. But I can list a couple of things we do know about him: At Tesla, despite not being a founder of the company, he contractually established that he was allowed to call himself a founder. And then pushed the actual founders out. Online, we see him pick stupid internet fights, and post irresponsible tweets that got him slapped for stock manipulation. At Twitter, we've all seen his bizarre mismanagement, despite his original background in software development. We've recently heard that the Cybertruck was a bad decision that he personally pushed through at Tesla. So given all of that, of course it's still possible that his rocket engineering creds at SpaceX are real, but you really can't blame people for having some doubts about that. I don't expect anyone employed at SpaceX to spill the beans, but there's plenty of anonymous rumours on the internet about his actual role: https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/27rnwj/is_elon_personally_working_on_engineering_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/27rnwj/is_elon_pers... > Elon is indeed very involved in the design. The way they explained it is they give him a list of options to choose from and he picks the one he likes. Usually, it's the one the lead engineer wants, but sometimes it isn't, and Elon gets what he wants. That's reasonable enough for a CEO in a flat organisation, but it doesn't sound like he's doing the actual engineering, just picking from the options the engineers give him. I've also seen a (claimed, not verified) SpaceX employee say that SpaceX has people who's job it is to keep Elon happy and feel involved, because a happy Elon gives them the freedom to make the right decisions. He got this Tony Stark image in the media, and I think he's been leaning a bit too hard into it, and started to believe the image that he could do everything. And the history of Tesla shows that he's not above overstating his own role. Don't get me wrong: I love much of what he's done at Tesla and SpaceX; EVs wouldn't be where they are now without him, and rocketry in the US might well be dead without SpaceX. But he certainly has his share of character flaws as well.
        xedeon 3y ago
        > A tweet without any context doesn't exactly prove much. No idea who is wrong about what there. The tweet was a response to the same claims you're making, the parent tweet is clearly there. It seems that you don't even know who Tom Mueller is. I linked Tom's Wikipedia bio for context, maybe you should take the time to read it. "Thomas John Mueller is an American aerospace engineer and rocket engine designer. He *was* a *founding* employee of SpaceX, an American aerospace manufacturer and space transportation services company headquartered in Hawthorne, California, and the founder and CEO of Impulse Space" > I don't expect anyone employed at SpaceX to spill the beans, but there's plenty of anonymous rumours on the internet about his actual role: Tom was already retired when he posted those tweets. So again, your claims are just patently false. Let's see...Your source is from an "anonymous rumour" and is more credible than a former/founding SpaceX employee? I have no words... > At Tesla, despite not being a founder of the company, he contractually established that he was allowed to call himself a founder. And then pushed the actual founders out. The Tesla Board of Directors did that, not Elon. But you knew that right? It's dishonest to attribute the success of the Tesla Roadster, Model S/X, and Model 3 ramp-up, as well as Tesla's current achievements, to Eberhard and Tarpenning. > But he certainly has his share of character flaws as well. Don't we all? Not a single person on this planet is flawless, and it's sanctimonious to think otherwise.
    - concordDance 3y ago
      > He suggests he taught himself rocket science and that he's personally involved in designing these rockets and cars Every source I know of agrees this is true.
      - TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
        It's hard to understand how SpaceX can be such a success while Cybertruck and Twitter are such a shit show. (Let's ignore Hyperloop because he admitted that was always an anti-rail spoiler.) Based on his Tweet history, he comes across as astoundingly immature, thin-skinned, and easily distracted. He has: accused someone completely innocent of paedophilia for random reasons that are hard to fathom; denied that Covid was a problem; tweeted like a teenager about womens' boobs and limited math skills; lost at least 75% on his purchase of Twitter; suggested a literal dick measuring contest with Zuckerberg; claimed he was going to sell 10% of his Tesla stock to alleviate poverty and then awarded to it to a trust he owns; cynically hyped Dogecoin and (arguably) Tesla... And so on. I suppose someone like that might also be a genius rocket engineer. But if he is, it's quite a niche talent that doesn't seem to have transferred to his other projects.
        concordDance 3y ago
        His speciality seems to be leading companies that solve tangible measurable hardware problems like "cheaply launch orbital rockets" and "make commercially viable long range fast electric car" (making cheap underground car tunnels is impossible so it doesnt really matter how good a hardware guy he is). I don't know why you'd think being good at a domain would transfer to other very different domains. There's no reason to think an amazing singer would be a good mathematician, why should a hardware production line maker have good taste in truck aesthetics?
- mlindner 3y ago
  I'm really tired of this claim. Every single time its made its entirely a figment of the writer's imagination, because there is no quote you can find of Elon attributing the success to himself. In fact when people attribute SpaceX's success to him in interviews he almost universally immediately deflects that praise to the people at SpaceX. I've seen that personally in numerous interviews over the last decade and a half I've been following SpaceX.
agent327 3y ago
Would any of it have happened without Elon Musk? Sure, there are many people who work in the organisation that he built that help him achieve his vision, but none of that would have existed without him challenging the world to an impossible dream ("live on Mars!"). Without Elon Musk, the space industry would still have been focused on SLS-style projects: slow to develop and impossibly expensive, the domain of only one or two governments, and always at the mercy of the next administrations' priorities. Instead, if he succeeds, humanity will be transformed, from a species that barely dips its toes into space, to one that can finally begin to truly explore the solar system. It's as much the start of a new age as was the voyage of Columbus. Giving Elon Musk credit for this is certainly not misplaced. Denying him that credit because you disagree with him politically (as another poster suggested)... I have no words for that, it's just so ridiculous. This is the pinnacle of human development right here, and you would deny it because the guy votes Republican? You know, like literally half the people in the country?
- defrost 3y ago
  > You know, like literally half the people in the country? I have no opinion on Musk or the rest of your comment, but as a simple matter of factual data it's been two decades since US Republicans could claim a slight edge on US Democrats in the popular vote (percentage of entire voting population) and four decades since they had any significant support. For a good while Republican voters have been less than half the country and were it not for the uneven weighting of geographic areas and a domination of party controlled gerrymandering oportunities they would have even less political success than they have seen. That's just simple psephology fo you.
  - philwelch 3y ago
    In 2022, the nationwide popular vote for the House of Representatives was 54,506,136 for Republicans and 51,477,313 for Democrats. By percentage the Republicans won 50.6% of the vote and Democrats won 47.8%.
    - defrost 3y ago
Dig1t 3y ago
Musk's title is chief engineer, he has stated many times in interviews, and has been corroborated by other spacex engineers, that all engineering decisions go through him.

unethical_ban 3y ago

Nations are the societies we live in, so collective action is pretty neat in my book.