4 ms·

I've been saying the same thing. Coding is the worst part of the process. I've been doing it for 20 years professionally and another 10 or more on top of that a

I've been saying the same thing. Coding is the worst part of the process. I've been doing it for 20 years professionally and another 10 or more on top of that as a hobby. Don't care about code, just want to make things. Code sucks.

creesch 3y ago
While I don't want to go as far as saying that it sucks, I do largely agree with the sentiment. Personally, I do like coding a little bit but mostly as a puzzle but for the most part it is a means to an end. Lately, I have been using ChatGPT and the OpenAI API to do exactly that for a few projects. I used it to help me round out the design, brainstorm about approaches, tune database requirements, etc. I basically got to the point where I had a proof of concept for all the separate components in a very short amount of time. Then for the implementation it was a similar story. I already had a much more solid idea (technical and functional design, if you will) of how I wanted to implement things than I normally do. And, for most of the things where I would get slowed down normally, I could just turn to the chat. Then by just telling it what part I had trouble with, it would get me back on track in no time. Having said all that, I couldn't have used it in such a way without any knowledge of programming. Because if you just tell it that you want to "create an application that does X" it will come up with overly broad solution. All the questions and problems I presented to it were based from a position where I already knew the language, platform and had a general sense of requirements.
DrSiemer 3y ago
Many designers despise AI generated images, because they love the process itself. I knew one who missed the slow loading of massive design documents, because he would use that time to get inspired by stuff. There were probably a lot of loom weavers that felt the same about their tools. But the times, they are a-changing.
Xelynega 3y ago
I think LLMs are the wrong solution for this problem. Why make something that produces low level code based off of existing low level code instead of building up meaningful abstractions to make development easier and ensure that low level code was written right? Basically react and other similar abstractions for other languages did more to take "coding" out of creating applications than gpt ever will IMO.
- ehnto 3y ago
  I had wondered, perhaps there will be an LLM specific framework that works idiomatic to how the LLM operates. I wonder if an LLM optimal framework would be human readable, or would it work differently. The downside obviously, LLMs work by processing existing solutions. Producing a novel framework for LLMs would require humans to make it, defeating the point a bit.
firecall 3y ago
I rather enjoy making things, or solving problems. But my favourite bit is refining and optimising the code! Finding the patterns and abstractions I can make to DRY it out. That's the bit I like :-) Wrestling APIs and trying to understand inadequate documentation is the worst part!
renegade-otter 3y ago
Because we solve the same problems with different tools, languages, and frameworks. The core of what we do never changes - get input from user, show error, get input again, save the input, show the input. Now it just got more complicated, even though 20 years later most of this could be a dull Rails or a Django app. And AI will probably do the decent CRUD part, but you will still need an expert for the hard parts of software.
shrimpx 3y ago
If you don't want to code, how do you "make things"? (Presumably by "things" you mean programs/apps.) "Making" and "coding" are synonymous for programmers.
- w4ffl35 3y ago
  That's why I still program.

creesch 3y ago

While I don't want to go as far as saying that it sucks, I do largely agree with the sentiment. Personally, I do like coding a little bit but mostly as a puzzle but for the most part it is a means to an end. Lately, I have been using ChatGPT and the OpenAI API to do exactly that for a few projects. I used it to help me round out the design, brainstorm about approaches, tune database requirements, etc. I basically got to the point where I had a proof of concept for all the separate components in a very short amount of time. Then for the implementation it was a similar story. I already had a much more solid idea (technical and functional design, if you will) of how I wanted to implement things than I normally do. And, for most of the things where I would get slowed down normally, I could just turn to the chat. Then by just telling it what part I had trouble with, it would get me back on track in no time. Having said all that, I couldn't have used it in such a way without any knowledge of programming. Because if you just tell it that you want to "create an application that does X" it will come up with overly broad solution. All the questions and problems I presented to it were based from a position where I already knew the language, platform and had a general sense of requirements.

DrSiemer 3y ago

Many designers despise AI generated images, because they love the process itself. I knew one who missed the slow loading of massive design documents, because he would use that time to get inspired by stuff. There were probably a lot of loom weavers that felt the same about their tools. But the times, they are a-changing.

Xelynega 3y ago

I think LLMs are the wrong solution for this problem. Why make something that produces low level code based off of existing low level code instead of building up meaningful abstractions to make development easier and ensure that low level code was written right? Basically react and other similar abstractions for other languages did more to take "coding" out of creating applications than gpt ever will IMO.

ehnto 3y ago
I had wondered, perhaps there will be an LLM specific framework that works idiomatic to how the LLM operates. I wonder if an LLM optimal framework would be human readable, or would it work differently. The downside obviously, LLMs work by processing existing solutions. Producing a novel framework for LLMs would require humans to make it, defeating the point a bit.

firecall 3y ago

I rather enjoy making things, or solving problems. But my favourite bit is refining and optimising the code! Finding the patterns and abstractions I can make to DRY it out. That's the bit I like :-) Wrestling APIs and trying to understand inadequate documentation is the worst part!

renegade-otter 3y ago

Because we solve the same problems with different tools, languages, and frameworks. The core of what we do never changes - get input from user, show error, get input again, save the input, show the input. Now it just got more complicated, even though 20 years later most of this could be a dull Rails or a Django app. And AI will probably do the decent CRUD part, but you will still need an expert for the hard parts of software.

shrimpx 3y ago

If you don't want to code, how do you "make things"? (Presumably by "things" you mean programs/apps.) "Making" and "coding" are synonymous for programmers.

w4ffl35 3y ago
That's why I still program.