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We don't know the counterfactual so that's difficult to answer. I think the truth is that these two companies were a great fit for Musk's style in particular,

We don't know the counterfactual so that's difficult to answer. I think the truth is that these two companies were a great fit for Musk's style in particular, not that Musk is necessarily a great leader. What I mean is that Musk is reportedly overbearing and extremely demanding as a leader, and if you don't deliver he will fire you without hesitation. In most organizations that would quickly lead to morale and staffing quality problems, but SpaceX and Tesla worked on really sexy problems, so people were willing to put up with a lot of bullshit and abuse in exchange for getting to work on those problems. Based on how Elon seems to be running Twitter, it doesn't seem like he ran SpaceX and Twitter in that fashion with intent because he realized he could get away with demanding so much from his employees. Rather it's just how he operates -- meaning that he got lucky, yet again. But we'll see, right? Twitter is basically the opposite of a sexy problem, so if he turns that around then maybe he really is a talented leader.

rapsey 3y ago
> I think the truth is that these two companies were a great fit for Musk's style in particular, not that Musk is necessarily a great leader. Tesla was barely more than an idea when he joined and he started SpaceX. You are speaking nonesense. His leadership style obviously finds employees who accept or even thrive in it. The success speaks for itself. > What I mean is that Musk is reportedly overbearing and extremely demanding as a leader, and if you don't deliver he will fire you without hesitation. In most organizations that would quickly lead to morale and staffing quality problems, but SpaceX and Tesla worked on really sexy problems, so people were willing to put up with a lot of bullshit and abuse in exchange for getting to work on those problems. All that you have said just as much applies to Jobs. Just because you might find that style of leadership unappealing there is a type of person who seeks it out.
- nwiswell 3y ago
  The comparison between Musk and Jobs is kind of absurd. Jobs' greatest strength was probably his way with people. He was a perfectionist, and if you got his way he was merciless, but he was also deeply charismatic and persuasive, and seemed to have an eye for talent. There are many stories about him personally persuading people to come onboard or stay, here is one: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/09/how-steve-jobs-convinced-tim-cook-to-join-apple.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/09/how-steve-jobs-convinced-tim... And here's a relevant Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field Elon, by contrast... Uh, Elon is autistic.
  - rapsey 3y ago
    > The comparison between Musk and Jobs is kind of absurd. No it is not. You're just blinded by Musk derangement syndrome and grasping at any straws that might dismiss his accomplishments.
mardifoufs 3y ago
Isn't blue origin a pretty good counter factual? Started at the same time as SpaceX did, had more funds available for r&d than spacex considering Bezos was richer and Elon used to be a lot more broke than he pretended to be (I'm talking about the 2006-2018 era, where Tesla was a massive money pit and his wealth was mostly built on hype). Yet the results are pretty damning, BO hasn't reached orbit yet.

rapsey 3y ago

> I think the truth is that these two companies were a great fit for Musk's style in particular, not that Musk is necessarily a great leader. Tesla was barely more than an idea when he joined and he started SpaceX. You are speaking nonesense. His leadership style obviously finds employees who accept or even thrive in it. The success speaks for itself. > What I mean is that Musk is reportedly overbearing and extremely demanding as a leader, and if you don't deliver he will fire you without hesitation. In most organizations that would quickly lead to morale and staffing quality problems, but SpaceX and Tesla worked on really sexy problems, so people were willing to put up with a lot of bullshit and abuse in exchange for getting to work on those problems. All that you have said just as much applies to Jobs. Just because you might find that style of leadership unappealing there is a type of person who seeks it out.

nwiswell 3y ago
The comparison between Musk and Jobs is kind of absurd. Jobs' greatest strength was probably his way with people. He was a perfectionist, and if you got his way he was merciless, but he was also deeply charismatic and persuasive, and seemed to have an eye for talent. There are many stories about him personally persuading people to come onboard or stay, here is one: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/09/how-steve-jobs-convinced-tim-cook-to-join-apple.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/09/how-steve-jobs-convinced-tim... And here's a relevant Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field Elon, by contrast... Uh, Elon is autistic.
- rapsey 3y ago
  > The comparison between Musk and Jobs is kind of absurd. No it is not. You're just blinded by Musk derangement syndrome and grasping at any straws that might dismiss his accomplishments.

mardifoufs 3y ago

Isn't blue origin a pretty good counter factual? Started at the same time as SpaceX did, had more funds available for r&d than spacex considering Bezos was richer and Elon used to be a lot more broke than he pretended to be (I'm talking about the 2006-2018 era, where Tesla was a massive money pit and his wealth was mostly built on hype). Yet the results are pretty damning, BO hasn't reached orbit yet.