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> The only way the haters could say anything against him with any sway at this point is becoming more successful than him. Do you believe that financial and bu

> The only way the haters could say anything against him with any sway at this point is becoming more successful than him. Do you believe that financial and business success is the only measure of merit? By most accounts, Putin and the Saudi royals command even more wealth than Musk does, are they worthy of still more praise? This is just one person's opinion, but I'm pretty sure we've got a developing Howard Hughes situation on our hands. He's only 52 so it's going to get a lot worse.

atleastoptimal 3y ago
I mean more in that people say that he's dumb and is just lucking into success. They don't want to admit that he's highly capable.
- nwiswell 3y ago
  Well candidly the Compaq acquisition of Zip2 was absolutely lucking into success. He built something, sure, but most people do not get their startups bought out at the height of a ridiculous Internet bubble for $307 million. If the place or time or circumstances had been slightly different it would not have worked out that way. Lightning struck a second time with X.com, first with a very fortuitous merger and then with his gigantic golden parachute when the board voted to fire him as CEO in favor of Thiel (it's difficult to credit him for landing that giant eBay exit since he had gotten the boot over 2 years prior). He deserves credit for taking the gamble on SpaceX and seeing the early potential in Tesla though.
  - atleastoptimal 3y ago
    Do you think Tesla would have been as successful without his leadership? Or SpaceX? Of course he "picks" things well but what about his day to day influence? Is that fungible to any CEO who devotes a similar amount of time?
    - nwiswell 3y ago
      We don't know the counterfactual so that's difficult to answer. I think the truth is that these two companies were a great fit for Musk's style in particular, not that Musk is necessarily a great leader. What I mean is that Musk is reportedly overbearing and extremely demanding as a leader, and if you don't deliver he will fire you without hesitation. In most organizations that would quickly lead to morale and staffing quality problems, but SpaceX and Tesla worked on really sexy problems, so people were willing to put up with a lot of bullshit and abuse in exchange for getting to work on those problems. Based on how Elon seems to be running Twitter, it doesn't seem like he ran SpaceX and Twitter in that fashion with intent because he realized he could get away with demanding so much from his employees. Rather it's just how he operates -- meaning that he got lucky, yet again. But we'll see, right? Twitter is basically the opposite of a sexy problem, so if he turns that around then maybe he really is a talented leader.
      - rapsey 3y ago
        > I think the truth is that these two companies were a great fit for Musk's style in particular, not that Musk is necessarily a great leader. Tesla was barely more than an idea when he joined and he started SpaceX. You are speaking nonesense. His leadership style obviously finds employees who accept or even thrive in it. The success speaks for itself. > What I mean is that Musk is reportedly overbearing and extremely demanding as a leader, and if you don't deliver he will fire you without hesitation. In most organizations that would quickly lead to morale and staffing quality problems, but SpaceX and Tesla worked on really sexy problems, so people were willing to put up with a lot of bullshit and abuse in exchange for getting to work on those problems. All that you have said just as much applies to Jobs. Just because you might find that style of leadership unappealing there is a type of person who seeks it out.
        nwiswell 3y ago
        The comparison between Musk and Jobs is kind of absurd. Jobs' greatest strength was probably his way with people. He was a perfectionist, and if you got his way he was merciless, but he was also deeply charismatic and persuasive, and seemed to have an eye for talent. There are many stories about him personally persuading people to come onboard or stay, here is one: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/09/how-steve-jobs-convinced-tim-cook-to-join-apple.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/09/how-steve-jobs-convinced-tim... And here's a relevant Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field Elon, by contrast... Uh, Elon is autistic.
lupusreal 3y ago
[dead]
pedroma 3y ago
Musk has done good for the environment, more than what people give him credit for. At least if you consider moving people to electric cars and reusable rockets "good for environment" but I'm sure haters will find reasons to deny him even that.
strangesmells06 3y ago
[flagged]
- dkarras 3y ago
  oh so you haven't seen him on twitter.
  - strangesmells06 3y ago
    I find him hilarious on Twitter tbh
    - dkarras 3y ago
      except he is not joking.
      - strangesmells06 3y ago
        [flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

atleastoptimal 3y ago

I mean more in that people say that he's dumb and is just lucking into success. They don't want to admit that he's highly capable.

nwiswell 3y ago
Well candidly the Compaq acquisition of Zip2 was absolutely lucking into success. He built something, sure, but most people do not get their startups bought out at the height of a ridiculous Internet bubble for $307 million. If the place or time or circumstances had been slightly different it would not have worked out that way. Lightning struck a second time with X.com, first with a very fortuitous merger and then with his gigantic golden parachute when the board voted to fire him as CEO in favor of Thiel (it's difficult to credit him for landing that giant eBay exit since he had gotten the boot over 2 years prior). He deserves credit for taking the gamble on SpaceX and seeing the early potential in Tesla though.
- atleastoptimal 3y ago
  Do you think Tesla would have been as successful without his leadership? Or SpaceX? Of course he "picks" things well but what about his day to day influence? Is that fungible to any CEO who devotes a similar amount of time?
  - nwiswell 3y ago
    We don't know the counterfactual so that's difficult to answer. I think the truth is that these two companies were a great fit for Musk's style in particular, not that Musk is necessarily a great leader. What I mean is that Musk is reportedly overbearing and extremely demanding as a leader, and if you don't deliver he will fire you without hesitation. In most organizations that would quickly lead to morale and staffing quality problems, but SpaceX and Tesla worked on really sexy problems, so people were willing to put up with a lot of bullshit and abuse in exchange for getting to work on those problems. Based on how Elon seems to be running Twitter, it doesn't seem like he ran SpaceX and Twitter in that fashion with intent because he realized he could get away with demanding so much from his employees. Rather it's just how he operates -- meaning that he got lucky, yet again. But we'll see, right? Twitter is basically the opposite of a sexy problem, so if he turns that around then maybe he really is a talented leader.
    - rapsey 3y ago
      > I think the truth is that these two companies were a great fit for Musk's style in particular, not that Musk is necessarily a great leader. Tesla was barely more than an idea when he joined and he started SpaceX. You are speaking nonesense. His leadership style obviously finds employees who accept or even thrive in it. The success speaks for itself. > What I mean is that Musk is reportedly overbearing and extremely demanding as a leader, and if you don't deliver he will fire you without hesitation. In most organizations that would quickly lead to morale and staffing quality problems, but SpaceX and Tesla worked on really sexy problems, so people were willing to put up with a lot of bullshit and abuse in exchange for getting to work on those problems. All that you have said just as much applies to Jobs. Just because you might find that style of leadership unappealing there is a type of person who seeks it out.
      - nwiswell 3y ago
        The comparison between Musk and Jobs is kind of absurd. Jobs' greatest strength was probably his way with people. He was a perfectionist, and if you got his way he was merciless, but he was also deeply charismatic and persuasive, and seemed to have an eye for talent. There are many stories about him personally persuading people to come onboard or stay, here is one: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/09/how-steve-jobs-convinced-tim-cook-to-join-apple.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/09/how-steve-jobs-convinced-tim... And here's a relevant Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field Elon, by contrast... Uh, Elon is autistic.

lupusreal 3y ago

[dead]

pedroma 3y ago

Musk has done good for the environment, more than what people give him credit for. At least if you consider moving people to electric cars and reusable rockets "good for environment" but I'm sure haters will find reasons to deny him even that.

strangesmells06 3y ago

[flagged]

dkarras 3y ago
oh so you haven't seen him on twitter.
- strangesmells06 3y ago
  I find him hilarious on Twitter tbh
  - dkarras 3y ago
    except he is not joking.
    - strangesmells06 3y ago
      [flagged]
deleted 3y ago
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