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> But, even still, its fair to argue that the separation of powers between the state and citizenry should be narrow. I think that ship sailed a long time ago.
by dmoy 3y ago
> But, even still, its fair to argue that the separation of powers between the state and citizenry should be narrow.
I think that ship sailed a long time ago.
Beyond the wiretapping example you mentioned:
Qualified immunity: cops can do a wide range of things in the line of duty (or even vaguely approximating the line of duty) and not have liability for the consequences of their actions (including like, killing random bystanders).
Firearms: cops can get new machineguns. Cops are explicitly granted exceptions from almost all gun laws (and in some cases, even ex cops).
(Practically speaking) traffic laws: maybe not ubiquitous in every city, but cops can just disregard traffic laws when they want, with impunity.
Lying: a cop can go to great lengths to lie and decieve you while conducting their business, interviewing or interrogation, etc. If you lie to them, it gets you in a really bad spot when it comes time for court. In many jurisdictions (for example my own state), just lying to a cop is technically punishable by thousands of dollars and/or up to a year of jail.
Etc etc etc
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- yreg 3y ago>a cop can go to great lengths to lie and decieve you while conducting their business, interviewing or interrogation, etc. If you lie to them, it gets you in a really bad spot when it comes time for court European here, but is this really true? Over here it's the cops who usually can't lie and defendants are free to lie when defending themselves.
- dmoy 3y agoYup it's the opposite here There are limits on exactly how a cop can lie, though the bar is sort of ambiguous - it can't "shock the conscience". They also ostensibly can't entrap you.
- bhelkey 3y agoYes. Police are allowed to lie during interviews/interrogations [2]. However, they are not allowed to lie during trial. Those in the US have the right to remain silent, and the right to an attorney. After invoking either or both of those rights, the interrogation must stop [1]. The only limit to deception during interrogation that I am aware of is that some states limit police from lying to minors [2]. [1] https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/questioning-after-claiming-miranda.html#:~:text=Sometimes%20police%20can%20continue%20to,police%20must%20stop%20the%20interrogation https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/questioning-after-cl.... [2] https://www.teenvogue.com/story/police-deception-interrogation-youth https://www.teenvogue.com/story/police-deception-interrogati...
- weaksauce 3y ago> However, they are not allowed to lie during trial. outright lie? no. but that doesn't matter when it's just your word against theirs and they have some outsized influence in the community as a savior figure.
- pfannkuchen 3y agoAnd lawyers can lie all they want, right? Wonder if there was an argument in the 1700s where one guy was really insisting that right to remain silent made ability to lie redundant and it’s more elegant to just not have it.
- dmoy 3y agoYou can find a lot of background on e.g. the bill of rights from prior versions, the federalist papers, etc. It can give a lot of insight on the various amendments. That one though... I'm unaware of.
- bryanrasmussen 3y agoLawyers are generally not allowed to lie during trial either thus the career generally is considered good for people who can mislead or manipulate without actually lying.
- dragonwriter 3y ago> However, they are not allowed to lie during trial. They do it all the time, and get away with it, and if they are caught, while they could in principal face severe sanction, the most that usually happens is that anyone convicted on the basis of the lies they were caught in, after some bureaucractic delay, gets any unserved portion of thwir sentence avoided and gets fornally cleared, personal consequences for the lying cop are rare.