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What's up with all of the Ubuntu hate in the comments? Ubuntu is my default choice. It's very easy to use, polished and doesn't require tweaking. I just insta

What's up with all of the Ubuntu hate in the comments? Ubuntu is my default choice. It's very easy to use, polished and doesn't require tweaking. I just installed Ubuntu Server earlier this week on my home server, and I was surprised at how nice the installer has gotten.

donmcronald 3y ago
> I was surprised at how nice the installer has gotten. It’s pretty good, but adding two ESP devices gives the impression you’re getting boot redundancy and you’re not. Only one of them will end up with GRUB. Then, once you fix that, only the primary device will have an entry in fstab and SystemD will have a nervous breakdown if you try to boot off the secondary with the primary missing. Good luck supplying the root password for emergency mode because you probably don’t have one.
- yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
  > It’s pretty good, but adding two ESP devices gives the impression you’re getting boot redundancy and you’re not. Only one of them will end up with GRUB. Then, once you fix that, only the primary device will have an entry in fstab and SystemD will have a nervous breakdown if you try to boot off the secondary with the primary missing. How do you do that? The only way I know of is to use mdadm to RAID1 the partitions[0], but I wouldn't expect that to break the way you've described. [0] This is also a bit fiddly; IME you have to pick a specific configuration so the firmware will read the result.
calamari4065 3y ago
Because Canonical is starting to smell like enshittification. Nags and ads and withholding patches trying to goad you into buying premium. They aren't content to just make a good product, it has to be disgustingly profitable. Once a company starts down that path, it's only a matter of time until the end user experience becomes completely intolerable. We've seen it happen so many times we had to coin the word enshittification to describe it. Apart from very specific complaints like snaps, the hate is not for Ubuntu, the hate is for Canonical the company. People obviously still like and use Ubuntu, it's one of the pillars of the Linux community. Canonical has forgotten that in their plays for more money. Really, Canonical has been going downhill for a long time. It just hasn't been bad enough to provoke this kind of outcry until the premium ads in the apt package manager. If Canonical continues what they're doing, they'll see a prodigious loss of free users. That won't hurt them directly, but it will begin a slow and steady decline in enterprise usage. If it's so unpleasant to use Ubuntu at home, why would you use it at work if given the option? Ubuntu will stick around for a good long while and slowly get worse and worse as Canonical becomes more and more desperate. Canonical as a whole has some very serious problems and I really don't expect them to survive long term. I'm not sure it's possible to fix a company once they're in that state. Oh well, at least we have ten thousand other Linux distros to choose from.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Enterprise is fine paying for SuSE and Red-Hat, so it will business as usual with Ubuntu as well. It turns out many don't like trying out thousand of other Linux distros and how each of them decides to be different from everyone else.
- shepherdjerred 3y ago
  What do you see as a good alternative to Ubuntu today? I've used Debian, but the installs feel so barebones. I love that Ubuntu has many of the common packages I need, yet it doesn't feel bloated. Additionally, most software that supports Linux has instructions for Ubuntu, or Ubuntu just feels better supported.
  - chrisallenlane 3y ago
    If you want Debian with a nice desktop plus some common packages installed, IMO Linux Mint Debian Edition (IMDE) is a great option: https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    As other poster, Linux Mint runs Ubuntu with some of the nonsense stripped out. FlatPak instead of Snap. No telemetry or DRM. IMO you get to “stay with Ubuntu” but are also isolated from Canonical’s increasingly strange decisions.
  - ssnistfajen 3y ago
    Fedora, Mint, Manjaro, Pop, OpenSUSE, etc. I personally use OpenSUSE and Manjaro as my daily drivers after switching from Ubuntu 3 years ago, and have yet to encounter any package problems that directly stemmed from not using Ubuntu. For everything else, there's always Flatpak.
    - type0 3y ago
      Regular Mint and POP are Ubuntu based so if Canonical goes away tomorrow or more realistically bought by some big hostile company, what could you use? From the big distros run by foundations only Debian is truly community driven and OpenSUSE is independent but backed by a company. Fedora is owned by RH and can start doing the same bullshit as Ubuntu any day if they wish so. Arch and NixOS are community distros but both are kinda niche.
ssnistfajen 3y ago
>It's very easy to use, polished and doesn't require tweaking This isn't unique to Ubuntu. So there's no strong incentive for users to stick with Ubuntu in the face of repeated alienating acts like this.
worksonmine 3y ago
I left Ubuntu when they sent data to Amazon by default. Lately I'm pissed about how they push Snaps to the point of forbidding Ubuntu derivatives from using Flatpaks instead. It's one thing to promote your own solution, another to actively try to destroy the competition, that's Microsoft and Apple level bullshit. But I thank them, they helped me move to Debian and I haven't looked back.

donmcronald 3y ago

> I was surprised at how nice the installer has gotten. It’s pretty good, but adding two ESP devices gives the impression you’re getting boot redundancy and you’re not. Only one of them will end up with GRUB. Then, once you fix that, only the primary device will have an entry in fstab and SystemD will have a nervous breakdown if you try to boot off the secondary with the primary missing. Good luck supplying the root password for emergency mode because you probably don’t have one.

yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
> It’s pretty good, but adding two ESP devices gives the impression you’re getting boot redundancy and you’re not. Only one of them will end up with GRUB. Then, once you fix that, only the primary device will have an entry in fstab and SystemD will have a nervous breakdown if you try to boot off the secondary with the primary missing. How do you do that? The only way I know of is to use mdadm to RAID1 the partitions[0], but I wouldn't expect that to break the way you've described. [0] This is also a bit fiddly; IME you have to pick a specific configuration so the firmware will read the result.

calamari4065 3y ago

Because Canonical is starting to smell like enshittification. Nags and ads and withholding patches trying to goad you into buying premium. They aren't content to just make a good product, it has to be disgustingly profitable. Once a company starts down that path, it's only a matter of time until the end user experience becomes completely intolerable. We've seen it happen so many times we had to coin the word enshittification to describe it. Apart from very specific complaints like snaps, the hate is not for Ubuntu, the hate is for Canonical the company. People obviously still like and use Ubuntu, it's one of the pillars of the Linux community. Canonical has forgotten that in their plays for more money. Really, Canonical has been going downhill for a long time. It just hasn't been bad enough to provoke this kind of outcry until the premium ads in the apt package manager. If Canonical continues what they're doing, they'll see a prodigious loss of free users. That won't hurt them directly, but it will begin a slow and steady decline in enterprise usage. If it's so unpleasant to use Ubuntu at home, why would you use it at work if given the option? Ubuntu will stick around for a good long while and slowly get worse and worse as Canonical becomes more and more desperate. Canonical as a whole has some very serious problems and I really don't expect them to survive long term. I'm not sure it's possible to fix a company once they're in that state. Oh well, at least we have ten thousand other Linux distros to choose from.

pjmlp 3y ago
Enterprise is fine paying for SuSE and Red-Hat, so it will business as usual with Ubuntu as well. It turns out many don't like trying out thousand of other Linux distros and how each of them decides to be different from everyone else.
shepherdjerred 3y ago
What do you see as a good alternative to Ubuntu today? I've used Debian, but the installs feel so barebones. I love that Ubuntu has many of the common packages I need, yet it doesn't feel bloated. Additionally, most software that supports Linux has instructions for Ubuntu, or Ubuntu just feels better supported.
- chrisallenlane 3y ago
  If you want Debian with a nice desktop plus some common packages installed, IMO Linux Mint Debian Edition (IMDE) is a great option: https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  As other poster, Linux Mint runs Ubuntu with some of the nonsense stripped out. FlatPak instead of Snap. No telemetry or DRM. IMO you get to “stay with Ubuntu” but are also isolated from Canonical’s increasingly strange decisions.
- ssnistfajen 3y ago
  Fedora, Mint, Manjaro, Pop, OpenSUSE, etc. I personally use OpenSUSE and Manjaro as my daily drivers after switching from Ubuntu 3 years ago, and have yet to encounter any package problems that directly stemmed from not using Ubuntu. For everything else, there's always Flatpak.
  - type0 3y ago
    Regular Mint and POP are Ubuntu based so if Canonical goes away tomorrow or more realistically bought by some big hostile company, what could you use? From the big distros run by foundations only Debian is truly community driven and OpenSUSE is independent but backed by a company. Fedora is owned by RH and can start doing the same bullshit as Ubuntu any day if they wish so. Arch and NixOS are community distros but both are kinda niche.

ssnistfajen 3y ago

>It's very easy to use, polished and doesn't require tweaking This isn't unique to Ubuntu. So there's no strong incentive for users to stick with Ubuntu in the face of repeated alienating acts like this.

worksonmine 3y ago

I left Ubuntu when they sent data to Amazon by default. Lately I'm pissed about how they push Snaps to the point of forbidding Ubuntu derivatives from using Flatpaks instead. It's one thing to promote your own solution, another to actively try to destroy the competition, that's Microsoft and Apple level bullshit. But I thank them, they helped me move to Debian and I haven't looked back.