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This is an insanely politicized topic so it's basically impossible to actually discuss, but of course you see all the comments here and elsewhere about "corpora

This is an insanely politicized topic so it's basically impossible to actually discuss, but of course you see all the comments here and elsewhere about "corporate greed" and it's just so interesting to me to think about when conspiracy theories are allowed to be held and when they're not. What's being proposed is a grand conspiracy theory. That across most companies across all the states in the country they've all decided to be evil and greedy together, they're all supposedly run by greed heartless bureaucrats, and in the last few years in particular they've all decided together, in a grand conspiracy, to unanimously raise prices at the same time and extract as much profit as possible. Yes, it's all a grand conspiracy involving thousands of people and companies that are all evil and greedy. It's definitely not just that economic and political decisions that were made have had an effect. It's corporate greed that's the problem. The conspiracy doesn't even make sense. If all these companies were so greedy, wouldn't the best way for a company to make money in this world of greedy corporations be to just keep lower prices, which would result in stealing all of the business from the companies that raised prices, and thereby making more money?

PM_me_your_math 3y ago
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edmundsauto 3y ago
> That across most companies across all the states in the country they've all decided to be evil and greedy together...and in the last few years in particular they've all decided together, in a grand conspiracy, to unanimously raise prices at the same time Not necessarily accurate - the current situation (high prices) could be a result of seeing one company do it successfully, without blowback (initially), and copying it. I'm not clear why it would require explicit co-operation. Additionally, companies can change prices within a single quarter based on their observation of the market. > wouldn't the best way for a company to make money in this world of greedy corporations be to just keep lower prices, which would result in stealing all of the business from the companies that raised prices, and thereby making more money? Only under the rational economic model of consumers, where people change their buying habits due to price increases. But store loyalty/convenience/location/familiarity is sticky, and there were few other options out there. The stores that cut prices would face lower margins as well, so they would have to do more work for similar-ish profit, which increases wage cost. Either way, as you said, this is insanely politicized and I'm pretty sure any one person's interpretation reflects more about their own biases than any explanatory power of the price increase phenomenon.
jncfhnb 3y ago
You’re inserting the word “grand” into what is otherwise standard collusion, which is easy to do with plausible deniability or even unspokenly when there are few competitors (at least for large franchises fast food)
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  And it's also inserting collusion into what is normal Market Behavior. If customers complain but don't change buying Behavior, then prices will continue to go up until profit is high enough for a competitor to enter
jrflowers 3y ago
> If all these companies were so greedy, wouldn't the best way for a company to make money in this world of greedy corporations be to just keep lower prices, which would result in stealing all of the business from the companies that raised prices, and thereby making more money? This is a good thinking. Further if they wanted to make even more money they could keep prices low until gaining a large amount of market share and then jack up prices once competition is scarce. Thankfully as you’ve pointed out this either never happens or is not a sign of a greedy company.
mint2 3y ago
That only makes sense if the wage price spiral that can drive inflation is also dismissed as an impossible grand conspiracy amongst workers. What we have currently, however, has components of a profit price spiral, which posts like this one are trying to dismiss as a grand conspiracy. Neither type of price spiral should be dismissed as “impossible grand conspiracies” but yeah people like hand waving away inconvenient issues by claiming they’d require grand conspiracies. Ref on profit price spiral: https://www.marketplace.org/2023/07/28/do-corporations-take-advantage-of-inflation-with-a-profit-price-spiral/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/07/28/do-corporations-take-...
stillwithit 3y ago
They’re colluding to keep low effort consumption down. The only meme the meat based cassette tapes of the US accept is “market charges what it must not heat you can afford.” Inflation deflates low effort buying power. CEOs are not ignorant of the waste generated by the industrial pipelines their companies rely on. It’s why Trump and My Pillow types are freaking out so hard. Drop off in retail can hit online orders. Subsidized leisure travel and replacing shitty cheap pillows often are under threat if people buy items that last and save for fewer, nicer vacations.
pix128 3y ago
Collusion is NOT a prerequisite to raising prices. No conspiracy is required. It also helps a lot that these large corporations have driven out their competition.
richbell 3y ago
> What's being proposed is a grand conspiracy theory. That across most companies across all the states in the country they've all decided to be evil and greedy together... To quote the late George Carlin "you don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge." https://youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs https://youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs

PM_me_your_math 3y ago

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edmundsauto 3y ago

> That across most companies across all the states in the country they've all decided to be evil and greedy together...and in the last few years in particular they've all decided together, in a grand conspiracy, to unanimously raise prices at the same time Not necessarily accurate - the current situation (high prices) could be a result of seeing one company do it successfully, without blowback (initially), and copying it. I'm not clear why it would require explicit co-operation. Additionally, companies can change prices within a single quarter based on their observation of the market. > wouldn't the best way for a company to make money in this world of greedy corporations be to just keep lower prices, which would result in stealing all of the business from the companies that raised prices, and thereby making more money? Only under the rational economic model of consumers, where people change their buying habits due to price increases. But store loyalty/convenience/location/familiarity is sticky, and there were few other options out there. The stores that cut prices would face lower margins as well, so they would have to do more work for similar-ish profit, which increases wage cost. Either way, as you said, this is insanely politicized and I'm pretty sure any one person's interpretation reflects more about their own biases than any explanatory power of the price increase phenomenon.

jncfhnb 3y ago

You’re inserting the word “grand” into what is otherwise standard collusion, which is easy to do with plausible deniability or even unspokenly when there are few competitors (at least for large franchises fast food)

s1artibartfast 3y ago
And it's also inserting collusion into what is normal Market Behavior. If customers complain but don't change buying Behavior, then prices will continue to go up until profit is high enough for a competitor to enter

jrflowers 3y ago

> If all these companies were so greedy, wouldn't the best way for a company to make money in this world of greedy corporations be to just keep lower prices, which would result in stealing all of the business from the companies that raised prices, and thereby making more money? This is a good thinking. Further if they wanted to make even more money they could keep prices low until gaining a large amount of market share and then jack up prices once competition is scarce. Thankfully as you’ve pointed out this either never happens or is not a sign of a greedy company.

mint2 3y ago

That only makes sense if the wage price spiral that can drive inflation is also dismissed as an impossible grand conspiracy amongst workers. What we have currently, however, has components of a profit price spiral, which posts like this one are trying to dismiss as a grand conspiracy. Neither type of price spiral should be dismissed as “impossible grand conspiracies” but yeah people like hand waving away inconvenient issues by claiming they’d require grand conspiracies. Ref on profit price spiral: https://www.marketplace.org/2023/07/28/do-corporations-take-advantage-of-inflation-with-a-profit-price-spiral/ https://www.marketplace.org/2023/07/28/do-corporations-take-...

stillwithit 3y ago

They’re colluding to keep low effort consumption down. The only meme the meat based cassette tapes of the US accept is “market charges what it must not heat you can afford.” Inflation deflates low effort buying power. CEOs are not ignorant of the waste generated by the industrial pipelines their companies rely on. It’s why Trump and My Pillow types are freaking out so hard. Drop off in retail can hit online orders. Subsidized leisure travel and replacing shitty cheap pillows often are under threat if people buy items that last and save for fewer, nicer vacations.

pix128 3y ago

Collusion is NOT a prerequisite to raising prices. No conspiracy is required. It also helps a lot that these large corporations have driven out their competition.

richbell 3y ago

> What's being proposed is a grand conspiracy theory. That across most companies across all the states in the country they've all decided to be evil and greedy together... To quote the late George Carlin "you don't need a formal conspiracy when interests converge." https://youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs https://youtube.com/watch?v=VAFd4FdbJxs