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Two Incomes, No Kids is really an easy-mode shortcut to life. My wife and I can fully devote ourselves to our hobbies and interests without shame or judgement.

by S_Bear 3y ago

Two Incomes, No Kids is really an easy-mode shortcut to life. My wife and I can fully devote ourselves to our hobbies and interests without shame or judgement. All of these parenting articles sound exhausting for the participants.

kuahyeow 3y ago
Even with kids, I simply do not care about any judgement. 99% of the time, no one on the proverbial soccer field honestly cares about your family setup - they are more worried about what's for dinner.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
voisin 3y ago
Do you worry at all that (a) you are either missing out on something in the present (that there is something valuable in the exhausting struggle of parenthood), or (b) you might look back with regret in your later years?
- eyelidlessness 3y ago
  Does this line of questioning ever work?
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    It’s not rhetoric. It’s a question.
  - voisin 3y ago
    It wasn’t meant to “work”. It was an honest question.
    - eyelidlessness 3y ago
      People without kids get these questions repeatedly, and they’ve surely asked themselves the same questions. If the answer is no, they probably don’t especially relate to the premise of the questions in the first place. If they do relate and their answer is yes, it can be painful to have those regrets highlighted. I’ll take your word on your intent. But so you might understand my reaction, it’s often the case that people ask these questions in full awareness of those possible answers—asking them as a form of social pressure to undermine the former option and/or to reinforce and exploit the latter.
  - anononaut 3y ago
    That's a little defensive, wouldn't you say?
- nunez 3y ago
  I'm 36. Not in the slightest. Whenever the thought even feels like it's beginning to pop up, I visit friends/family with children, and those thoughts magically go away.
- Mountain_Skies 3y ago
  None of the DINKs I know have expressed regret over not having had kids though one couple did decide to have a child and got divorced not long after he was born. It changed the dynamic of their relationship and it no longer worked. I do wonder if DINKs have higher or lower divorce rates during childrearing years. I've known many couples who divorced after the kids got out on their own. They weren't staying together "for the sake of the kids" but raising children together was something that bound them together in a common mission. Once the kids were out on their own and established in their lives, the parents found they didn't have much in common and had different ideas on how to spend the rest of their lives. Do DINKs find their own common purpose that keeps them together or do they have a different relationship structure that really doesn't need one?
- S_Bear 3y ago
  No. My mother told me on my 12th birthday not to make the same mistake she did and it wasn't worth the sacrifices. Got fixed in my early 20s (I'm in my mid-40s now). My wife is disgusted by pregnancy and never wanted to put herself through that. I have everything I want and need, and no baggage anchoring me to a place (not attached to my parents, so if they need elder care, sucks to be them). My wife and I constantly remark how nice our life is and wouldn't change it for anything.
  - belval 3y ago
    > My mother told me on my 12th birthday not to make the same mistake she did I don't want to read into your family situation at all, but this seems like an extremely weird thing to say to your pre-teen. Could she not wait for you to be a bit older?
    - S_Bear 3y ago
      It was a great deterrent to teen pregnancy; never got anybody pregnant!
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    Between your mom's comments and your statement about your parents, it sounds like you had a very challenging upbringing that obviously has shaped your world view. And I can't argue with that... But I want to throw in that this is not the default experience. For example, my wife and I love taking care of our little kids although it's obviously challenging. The thing you get out of it is that it's deeply meaningful. I had "more fun" single (eg, would go to 20 countries every year) but to continue that lifestyle, childless, into my 40s, would have been sad. In contrast, I now love being a suburban dad who's all about the family. Similarly, as our parents age we know we will be there for them even if that presents its own challenges. There's no part of me that would feel better if I told my kids and parents to go fucks themselves to focus on my hobbies. I guess it goes back to the parents. Our parents modeled good parenthood for us and we want to keep doing it, and to also repay them as they need us. It's not an onerous obligation - we're happy to do it. But we're lucky to have had good parents.
- dkersten 3y ago
  > there is something valuable in the exhausting struggle Why would or should there be, though? People can find meaning in many things and you can create challenges or struggles for yourself to overcome in other ways, should you desire it. This mindset sound like a coping mechanism people tell themselves to make the struggle somehow feel more tolerable.
tmn 3y ago
Just piggybacking on this since the context is relevant. I don't think there is anything wrong with dink'ing. I think there is a personality thing at play. I'm only 5 months into parenthood, and it is exhausting. I don't regret it all though. Life was easy before, maybe too easy for me. All endeavors felt frivolous, and I was desiring something more. Well, this was it.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  Ditto
helij 3y ago
Two incomes. One kid and one on the way. My wife and I can fully devote ourselves to our hobbies and interests without shame or judgement. Pretty similar to above, no? Never understood this shame and judgement. Can you explain a little more? I don't find kids/parenting exhausting at all. They actually give me power to do more, to do better for them, my wife and myself.

by S_Bear 3y ago

kuahyeow 3y ago

Even with kids, I simply do not care about any judgement. 99% of the time, no one on the proverbial soccer field honestly cares about your family setup - they are more worried about what's for dinner.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

voisin 3y ago

Do you worry at all that (a) you are either missing out on something in the present (that there is something valuable in the exhausting struggle of parenthood), or (b) you might look back with regret in your later years?

eyelidlessness 3y ago
Does this line of questioning ever work?
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  It’s not rhetoric. It’s a question.
- voisin 3y ago
  It wasn’t meant to “work”. It was an honest question.
  - eyelidlessness 3y ago
    People without kids get these questions repeatedly, and they’ve surely asked themselves the same questions. If the answer is no, they probably don’t especially relate to the premise of the questions in the first place. If they do relate and their answer is yes, it can be painful to have those regrets highlighted. I’ll take your word on your intent. But so you might understand my reaction, it’s often the case that people ask these questions in full awareness of those possible answers—asking them as a form of social pressure to undermine the former option and/or to reinforce and exploit the latter.
- anononaut 3y ago
  That's a little defensive, wouldn't you say?
nunez 3y ago
I'm 36. Not in the slightest. Whenever the thought even feels like it's beginning to pop up, I visit friends/family with children, and those thoughts magically go away.
Mountain_Skies 3y ago
None of the DINKs I know have expressed regret over not having had kids though one couple did decide to have a child and got divorced not long after he was born. It changed the dynamic of their relationship and it no longer worked. I do wonder if DINKs have higher or lower divorce rates during childrearing years. I've known many couples who divorced after the kids got out on their own. They weren't staying together "for the sake of the kids" but raising children together was something that bound them together in a common mission. Once the kids were out on their own and established in their lives, the parents found they didn't have much in common and had different ideas on how to spend the rest of their lives. Do DINKs find their own common purpose that keeps them together or do they have a different relationship structure that really doesn't need one?
S_Bear 3y ago
No. My mother told me on my 12th birthday not to make the same mistake she did and it wasn't worth the sacrifices. Got fixed in my early 20s (I'm in my mid-40s now). My wife is disgusted by pregnancy and never wanted to put herself through that. I have everything I want and need, and no baggage anchoring me to a place (not attached to my parents, so if they need elder care, sucks to be them). My wife and I constantly remark how nice our life is and wouldn't change it for anything.
- belval 3y ago
  > My mother told me on my 12th birthday not to make the same mistake she did I don't want to read into your family situation at all, but this seems like an extremely weird thing to say to your pre-teen. Could she not wait for you to be a bit older?
  - S_Bear 3y ago
    It was a great deterrent to teen pregnancy; never got anybody pregnant!
- xyzelement 3y ago
  Between your mom's comments and your statement about your parents, it sounds like you had a very challenging upbringing that obviously has shaped your world view. And I can't argue with that... But I want to throw in that this is not the default experience. For example, my wife and I love taking care of our little kids although it's obviously challenging. The thing you get out of it is that it's deeply meaningful. I had "more fun" single (eg, would go to 20 countries every year) but to continue that lifestyle, childless, into my 40s, would have been sad. In contrast, I now love being a suburban dad who's all about the family. Similarly, as our parents age we know we will be there for them even if that presents its own challenges. There's no part of me that would feel better if I told my kids and parents to go fucks themselves to focus on my hobbies. I guess it goes back to the parents. Our parents modeled good parenthood for us and we want to keep doing it, and to also repay them as they need us. It's not an onerous obligation - we're happy to do it. But we're lucky to have had good parents.
dkersten 3y ago
> there is something valuable in the exhausting struggle Why would or should there be, though? People can find meaning in many things and you can create challenges or struggles for yourself to overcome in other ways, should you desire it. This mindset sound like a coping mechanism people tell themselves to make the struggle somehow feel more tolerable.

tmn 3y ago

Just piggybacking on this since the context is relevant. I don't think there is anything wrong with dink'ing. I think there is a personality thing at play. I'm only 5 months into parenthood, and it is exhausting. I don't regret it all though. Life was easy before, maybe too easy for me. All endeavors felt frivolous, and I was desiring something more. Well, this was it.

xyzelement 3y ago
Ditto

helij 3y ago

Two incomes. One kid and one on the way. My wife and I can fully devote ourselves to our hobbies and interests without shame or judgement. Pretty similar to above, no? Never understood this shame and judgement. Can you explain a little more? I don't find kids/parenting exhausting at all. They actually give me power to do more, to do better for them, my wife and myself.