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Why do people like Gravity’s Rainbow… Sometimes art is hard to understand and sometimes it’s good art because it’s deliberately hard to understand to make you

Why do people like Gravity’s Rainbow… Sometimes art is hard to understand and sometimes it’s good art because it’s deliberately hard to understand to make you think… And other times it’s just incomprehensible garbage that someone managed to sell and everyone is too embarrassed to admit it’s terrible.

silent_cal 3y ago
Yeah that's basically what I'm wondering - if it takes 30 years to understand a book can it really belong to the first category instead of the second? Hard to believe..
- hondo77 3y ago
  I don't remember anyone claiming they understood it when they were "done".
sverona 3y ago
Gravity's Rainbow is completely understandable right up until you put the book down for a second.
FFP999 3y ago
They're not the same. Gravity's Rainbow is downright lucid compared to Finnegan's Wake. Given Joyce was known to be something of a troll, as we would say today, I would not put it past him to have written Finnegan's Wake as a prank.
- techdragon 3y ago
  I’m not trying to ascribe merit or judge either Finnegan’s Wake or Gravity’s Rainbow… I’m trying to highlight the fact that the line between good art and bad art is subjective, blurry, and sometimes pointless. The fact an artist can be a bit of a troll sometimes adds to their work… just look at the partially shredded Banksy and how it was still worth lots of money since it was clearly the artist’s intention to have it shred… I’d argue that the shredded pieces would probably have retained just as much value if it had fully shredded since it would have been relatively easy to reassemble…as it’s a known artwork not unknown dense text.
  - FFP999 3y ago
    Still, Gravity's Rainbow has at least a semblance of a plot here and there, and distinct characters with motivations that have some kind of logic to them. Finnegan's Wake, far as I can tell, does not. I also wonder if the fact that I found Gravity's Rainbow much easier going has to do with the fact that the culture I grew up in is much more like the one Pynchon grew up in (northeastern USA, mid-to-late-20th century) as opposed to Joyce's origin in early-20th-century Ireland. It's not _that_ much of a difference in terms of years, but I don't think I need to tell you that the 20th century was, as a rule, a very busy and chaotic time. It's an interesting point about trollery being part of the art--I guess you could classify it as one of the performing arts like dance or theater. Maybe its closest relative is stand-up comedy.
snakeyjake 3y ago
>Why do people like Gravity’s Rainbow… Having read Gravity's Rainbow I have come to the conclusion that there is a non-zero chance that every single person who claims to have liked Gravity's Rainbow is lying. I read it 30 years ago as a self-righteous macho flex. Now that I am older and wiser I regret the time I wasted on it. I would have been better served reading the Yellow Pages from cover to cover.
- askin4it 3y ago
  Only a true Pynchon fan would harbor that degree of resentment.

silent_cal 3y ago

Yeah that's basically what I'm wondering - if it takes 30 years to understand a book can it really belong to the first category instead of the second? Hard to believe..

hondo77 3y ago
I don't remember anyone claiming they understood it when they were "done".

sverona 3y ago

Gravity's Rainbow is completely understandable right up until you put the book down for a second.

FFP999 3y ago

They're not the same. Gravity's Rainbow is downright lucid compared to Finnegan's Wake. Given Joyce was known to be something of a troll, as we would say today, I would not put it past him to have written Finnegan's Wake as a prank.

techdragon 3y ago
I’m not trying to ascribe merit or judge either Finnegan’s Wake or Gravity’s Rainbow… I’m trying to highlight the fact that the line between good art and bad art is subjective, blurry, and sometimes pointless. The fact an artist can be a bit of a troll sometimes adds to their work… just look at the partially shredded Banksy and how it was still worth lots of money since it was clearly the artist’s intention to have it shred… I’d argue that the shredded pieces would probably have retained just as much value if it had fully shredded since it would have been relatively easy to reassemble…as it’s a known artwork not unknown dense text.
- FFP999 3y ago
  Still, Gravity's Rainbow has at least a semblance of a plot here and there, and distinct characters with motivations that have some kind of logic to them. Finnegan's Wake, far as I can tell, does not. I also wonder if the fact that I found Gravity's Rainbow much easier going has to do with the fact that the culture I grew up in is much more like the one Pynchon grew up in (northeastern USA, mid-to-late-20th century) as opposed to Joyce's origin in early-20th-century Ireland. It's not _that_ much of a difference in terms of years, but I don't think I need to tell you that the 20th century was, as a rule, a very busy and chaotic time. It's an interesting point about trollery being part of the art--I guess you could classify it as one of the performing arts like dance or theater. Maybe its closest relative is stand-up comedy.

snakeyjake 3y ago

>Why do people like Gravity’s Rainbow… Having read Gravity's Rainbow I have come to the conclusion that there is a non-zero chance that every single person who claims to have liked Gravity's Rainbow is lying. I read it 30 years ago as a self-righteous macho flex. Now that I am older and wiser I regret the time I wasted on it. I would have been better served reading the Yellow Pages from cover to cover.

askin4it 3y ago
Only a true Pynchon fan would harbor that degree of resentment.