5 ms·

> Grid itself can't store energy, the generation and consumption needs to be in balance. So while there may be huge variance in on both sides (a sunny day, a w

> Grid itself can't store energy, the generation and consumption needs to be in balance. So while there may be huge variance in on both sides (a sunny day, a wind gust versus switching on the AC a train leaving the station) the only way to adjust is open a valve add steam, fuel? Will that scale to when, say, 80% of electricity sources are weather dependent? Or is that the pumped hydro / big batteries / future technology stuff? [Sorry for going off topic, here]

jnsaff2 3y ago
Grids have many-many consumers and many generators. So switching on a single AC does not have a noticeable effect. There are however correlated events like the famous East Enders peak in the UK (daily TV show at the end of which a large number of britons go and make tea with their 2kW electric kettles). But weather can span large areas and the solutions can be roughly categorized as: - some form of energy storage: batteries, hydro (can be pumped), flywheels, etc - dispatchable power - gas fired turbines, coal or wood fired thermal plants, nuclear, etc - demand side response - time of use pricing (like nordpool spot market prices) or getting paid to switch off your AC during peak hours, etc. Traditionally we have had a grid management mindset of "generation adapts to load", everyone uses as much and when they need and grid/generation adapts to it. With only renewables the mental model of "load follows generation" could make sense, people (or rather peoples devices) get a signal when it is most beneficial to consume and when not to. I think the reality will be some combination of all of the above. Mostly renewables but also diverse set of renewables that are somewhat anti-correlated, like wind+solar plus distributed. The shortfalls could be filled with natural gas fired power plants. Some nuclear when/if built/available combined with smart cars and devices. V2G will get there eventually as well and then the car battery will have much more energy available than a typical home uses in a day.
- repelsteeltje 3y ago
  Thanks for the great explanation!
- jacquesm 3y ago
  > There are however correlated events like the famous East Enders peak in the UK (daily TV show at the end of which a large number of britons go and make tea with their 2kW electric kettles Cruachan to the rescue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station Zero to full production in two minutes, 30 seconds in an extreme case if required. It's the Power Infrastructure equivalent of a supercar.
- TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
  The TV Pickup is a wonderful piece of trivia.

jnsaff2 3y ago

Grids have many-many consumers and many generators. So switching on a single AC does not have a noticeable effect. There are however correlated events like the famous East Enders peak in the UK (daily TV show at the end of which a large number of britons go and make tea with their 2kW electric kettles). But weather can span large areas and the solutions can be roughly categorized as: - some form of energy storage: batteries, hydro (can be pumped), flywheels, etc - dispatchable power - gas fired turbines, coal or wood fired thermal plants, nuclear, etc - demand side response - time of use pricing (like nordpool spot market prices) or getting paid to switch off your AC during peak hours, etc. Traditionally we have had a grid management mindset of "generation adapts to load", everyone uses as much and when they need and grid/generation adapts to it. With only renewables the mental model of "load follows generation" could make sense, people (or rather peoples devices) get a signal when it is most beneficial to consume and when not to. I think the reality will be some combination of all of the above. Mostly renewables but also diverse set of renewables that are somewhat anti-correlated, like wind+solar plus distributed. The shortfalls could be filled with natural gas fired power plants. Some nuclear when/if built/available combined with smart cars and devices. V2G will get there eventually as well and then the car battery will have much more energy available than a typical home uses in a day.

repelsteeltje 3y ago
Thanks for the great explanation!
jacquesm 3y ago
> There are however correlated events like the famous East Enders peak in the UK (daily TV show at the end of which a large number of britons go and make tea with their 2kW electric kettles Cruachan to the rescue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruachan_Power_Station Zero to full production in two minutes, 30 seconds in an extreme case if required. It's the Power Infrastructure equivalent of a supercar.
TRiG_Ireland 3y ago
The TV Pickup is a wonderful piece of trivia.