6 ms·

I keep saying—if you want me to return to the office, give me an office. Or even a cubicle. Why even enforce a hot-desking setup when the space is 20% full? It

I keep saying—if you want me to return to the office, give me an office. Or even a cubicle. Why even enforce a hot-desking setup when the space is 20% full? It makes no sense at all!

Pet_Ant 3y ago
For all the memes about cubicles the one time I had it was actually pleasant. You could have a small meeting in the cubicle. The walls were tall enough to hang up reference diagrams. Those same walls meant that sound didn't travel when your PM was on yet another call. Not being able to see a window was a downside. As was there oppressive grey-beige monotony, but I imagine with the Google colour palette they'd be much more bearable. Here, however, I can make more working remotely than I can in office for one of the few local companies. I mean it's an obvious choice.
- lawlessone 3y ago
  Compared to open plan, cubicles are pleasant.
- dylan604 3y ago
  A coworker took one of his scenic photos from a weekend trip and printed it out in quadrants. This was done as a cheap way of enlarging the print, but it also gave the sense of looking out a four pane window. It was later upgraded to have an actual frame to complete the look. He was the only one to have a window in his cubicle.
- jwells89 3y ago
  The walls have another benefit: they act like noise canceling headphones for your eyes. That’s one of the issues I have with open floor plan offices: people buzzing around in my peripheral vision can be incredibly distracting and detrimental to productivity depending on the day and my mental state, and there’s almost nothing that can be done to mitigate that.
  - macNchz 3y ago
    In the same vein, I also find it distracting to have people sitting or walking behind me–like my brain tries to maintain some awareness of them, which in turn makes me cognizant that people can see my screen, which itself is kind of distracting. In an open office this is largely a no-win situation as well: if you get a position with your back to the wall, you see people milling about everywhere, and if you face a wall, the whole office sees your screen.
    - Arrath 3y ago
      Yeah I get that hair raising on the back of my neck feeling when I'm trying to focus and there's a constant train of people moving behind me, its really unbearable.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > That’s one of the issues I have with open floor plan offices: people buzzing around in my peripheral vision can be incredibly distracting and detrimental to productivity depending on the day and my mental state, and there’s almost nothing that can be done to mitigate that. Don't worry, the office-lords have solved that! You can book a focus room for no more than 60 minutes when you need to focus. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!! /s People who complained about cubicles were probably mourning the loss of an enclosed office (which I imagine is far superior). As we are learning, it can always get worse, and what was once bad is now good by comparison to what we're getting now.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      The funny thing is that way back in the beforetimes (about the 1940s, I think), regular office workers were typically in an open office layout. When cubicles were invented, office workers absolutely loved them because they mitigated a lot of the horrors of an open office layout.
- jauntywundrkind 3y ago
  I'm semi interested in the Meta "Cube" cubical, using a sound absorbing adjustable soft 4th partition walls. Made of recycled PET. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35118315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35118315 There's various sound absorbing partitions one can buy online that seem kind of neat. But many seem to start at $1000, which suuucckkkss. I wonder what the bulk rate is for material like recycled pet. Not that I have any idea how to turn it into a soft-ish adjustable sound absorbing wall...
  - Pet_Ant 3y ago
    From that picture[1] they look _tiny_! My cubicle was at least 30 sqft. Had an extra chair for a coworker to sit down during a consult and could hold upto to 4 people standing. It was a small office, not a phonebooth. 1: https://calnewport.com/meta-rediscovers-the-cubicle/ https://calnewport.com/meta-rediscovers-the-cubicle/
- graywh 3y ago
  cubicle walls or not, windows are often blocked by office walls
  - alistairSH 3y ago
    My previous office was like that. The individual offices were around the exterior wall. The cubes were in the interior. Only managers got to see daylight. It was fucking depressing. Wife's previous office was better. Offices were around the interior, so cubes go light from the windows. Those offices had windows, so they too could get some natural light during the day. Current office is open plan, which is kinda dumb. Seating chart has me and another middle manager next to each other. Of the people who come in regularly (no forced RTO), we're the most frequently there AND the most frequently on calls. Le Sigh.
    - jstarfish 3y ago
      Heh. My previous workplace had a similar setup-- executives got perimeter offices with windows, everyone else got the bullpen. Thankfully, the executives were rarely there and their doors were left open, so sunlight still got through. Nothing is as bleak as security offices and SCIFs. Even the Soviets painted bunker interiors. Americans are too cheap.
      - alistairSH 3y ago
        Oh yeah, thankfully never had a SCIF job. I suppose it could be worse, there's always missile silos in the Midwest. Or a submarine. :)
      - Arrath 3y ago
        Executive offices (and the attendant parking spots) that are occupied maybe 15% of the time are a huge peeve for me, a lowly bullpen resident. Especially if we constantly have little break-off meetings or get togethers in the otherwise unoccupied office for sensitive things that we don't want overheard by the gossip mill. Maybe just give the office to someone who is 1) always here and 2) needs the space?
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Those same walls meant that sound didn't travel when your PM was on yet another call. In about 20 years of cubicle work, that was never my experience. It might be better than open plan for that (never had to suffer through that outside of exceedingly small offices, up to ~5 total people in a bullpen), but sound from calls in a cubicle environment (especially one shared with non-technical-IC staff) can be pretty bad.
lhamil64 3y ago
I'm lucky enough to work at a place that gives us actual offices. Some offices are larger with two desks (so some people share) but I have my own office. There's apparently some plan to improve our site and I'm really hoping they don't move us to an open plan or something.
gosub100 3y ago
It makes sense if your employer views your position as commodity, like a warehouse worker. "Here is your labor area we carved out for you to do your commoditized work units, one size fits all". The same reason JIRA is popular with management. Gives them visibility and "metrics" to improve. A less-charitable interpretation of hot-desking is that it's a constant reminder that your job is not secure, and that new people can come and replace you instantly, vs your own personal place in a cubicle or private office signals some amount of commitment that you have "your spot" at the company.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
  My personal beef that resulted in an email exchange was RTO preceded by an email saying we gotta hotdesk, because we don't have enough space for everyone. I just questioned whether it is a good idea to call people back into the office if you don't have space for them. It was not received well. But it is not about logic.
tivert 3y ago
> I keep saying—if you want me to return to the office, give me an office. Or even a cubicle. Why even enforce a hot-desking setup when the space is 20% full? It makes no sense at all! Cynically, it makes layoffs a lot more opaque. When everyone gets to express their individuality by sitting in an identical, constantly-shifting workspace; you can't "walk by" someone's desk and notice it's cleaned out and their gone. I don't think that's the main reason (the main reason is trying to cheap out on office rent and ape corporate fads), but it's probably a happy added perk for those who are pushing these things.
- jakobson14 3y ago
  This. Very "don't startle the cattle."
Joeri 3y ago
You know offices are not in a good place when people wistfully wish for the office situation of the workers in office space and the matrix.
numpad0 3y ago
The stupid idea is your value creation should come from internal/external prostitution works and radiating positive energies and importantly not from self playing on computers, because too much in software is measured subjectively and this mindset works for those that can game the system. This shouldn't go on forever, but kind of continue to spread until going against this trends becomes differentiation(and positive outlook in it is there's no way such trend is continuing, or perhaps even happening at at all at this point where random grumpy idiot like I am is rambling about it)

I keep saying—if you want me to return to the office, give me an office. Or even a cubicle. Why even enforce a hot-desking setup when the space is 20% full? It makes no sense at all!

Pet_Ant 3y ago

For all the memes about cubicles the one time I had it was actually pleasant. You could have a small meeting in the cubicle. The walls were tall enough to hang up reference diagrams. Those same walls meant that sound didn't travel when your PM was on yet another call. Not being able to see a window was a downside. As was there oppressive grey-beige monotony, but I imagine with the Google colour palette they'd be much more bearable. Here, however, I can make more working remotely than I can in office for one of the few local companies. I mean it's an obvious choice.

lawlessone 3y ago
Compared to open plan, cubicles are pleasant.
dylan604 3y ago
A coworker took one of his scenic photos from a weekend trip and printed it out in quadrants. This was done as a cheap way of enlarging the print, but it also gave the sense of looking out a four pane window. It was later upgraded to have an actual frame to complete the look. He was the only one to have a window in his cubicle.
jwells89 3y ago
The walls have another benefit: they act like noise canceling headphones for your eyes. That’s one of the issues I have with open floor plan offices: people buzzing around in my peripheral vision can be incredibly distracting and detrimental to productivity depending on the day and my mental state, and there’s almost nothing that can be done to mitigate that.
- macNchz 3y ago
  In the same vein, I also find it distracting to have people sitting or walking behind me–like my brain tries to maintain some awareness of them, which in turn makes me cognizant that people can see my screen, which itself is kind of distracting. In an open office this is largely a no-win situation as well: if you get a position with your back to the wall, you see people milling about everywhere, and if you face a wall, the whole office sees your screen.
  - Arrath 3y ago
    Yeah I get that hair raising on the back of my neck feeling when I'm trying to focus and there's a constant train of people moving behind me, its really unbearable.
- tivert 3y ago
  > That’s one of the issues I have with open floor plan offices: people buzzing around in my peripheral vision can be incredibly distracting and detrimental to productivity depending on the day and my mental state, and there’s almost nothing that can be done to mitigate that. Don't worry, the office-lords have solved that! You can book a focus room for no more than 60 minutes when you need to focus. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!! /s People who complained about cubicles were probably mourning the loss of an enclosed office (which I imagine is far superior). As we are learning, it can always get worse, and what was once bad is now good by comparison to what we're getting now.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    The funny thing is that way back in the beforetimes (about the 1940s, I think), regular office workers were typically in an open office layout. When cubicles were invented, office workers absolutely loved them because they mitigated a lot of the horrors of an open office layout.
jauntywundrkind 3y ago
I'm semi interested in the Meta "Cube" cubical, using a sound absorbing adjustable soft 4th partition walls. Made of recycled PET. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35118315 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35118315 There's various sound absorbing partitions one can buy online that seem kind of neat. But many seem to start at $1000, which suuucckkkss. I wonder what the bulk rate is for material like recycled pet. Not that I have any idea how to turn it into a soft-ish adjustable sound absorbing wall...
- Pet_Ant 3y ago
  From that picture[1] they look _tiny_! My cubicle was at least 30 sqft. Had an extra chair for a coworker to sit down during a consult and could hold upto to 4 people standing. It was a small office, not a phonebooth. 1: https://calnewport.com/meta-rediscovers-the-cubicle/ https://calnewport.com/meta-rediscovers-the-cubicle/
graywh 3y ago
cubicle walls or not, windows are often blocked by office walls
- alistairSH 3y ago
  My previous office was like that. The individual offices were around the exterior wall. The cubes were in the interior. Only managers got to see daylight. It was fucking depressing. Wife's previous office was better. Offices were around the interior, so cubes go light from the windows. Those offices had windows, so they too could get some natural light during the day. Current office is open plan, which is kinda dumb. Seating chart has me and another middle manager next to each other. Of the people who come in regularly (no forced RTO), we're the most frequently there AND the most frequently on calls. Le Sigh.
  - jstarfish 3y ago
    Heh. My previous workplace had a similar setup-- executives got perimeter offices with windows, everyone else got the bullpen. Thankfully, the executives were rarely there and their doors were left open, so sunlight still got through. Nothing is as bleak as security offices and SCIFs. Even the Soviets painted bunker interiors. Americans are too cheap.
    - alistairSH 3y ago
      Oh yeah, thankfully never had a SCIF job. I suppose it could be worse, there's always missile silos in the Midwest. Or a submarine. :)
    - Arrath 3y ago
      Executive offices (and the attendant parking spots) that are occupied maybe 15% of the time are a huge peeve for me, a lowly bullpen resident. Especially if we constantly have little break-off meetings or get togethers in the otherwise unoccupied office for sensitive things that we don't want overheard by the gossip mill. Maybe just give the office to someone who is 1) always here and 2) needs the space?
dragonwriter 3y ago
> Those same walls meant that sound didn't travel when your PM was on yet another call. In about 20 years of cubicle work, that was never my experience. It might be better than open plan for that (never had to suffer through that outside of exceedingly small offices, up to ~5 total people in a bullpen), but sound from calls in a cubicle environment (especially one shared with non-technical-IC staff) can be pretty bad.

lhamil64 3y ago

I'm lucky enough to work at a place that gives us actual offices. Some offices are larger with two desks (so some people share) but I have my own office. There's apparently some plan to improve our site and I'm really hoping they don't move us to an open plan or something.

gosub100 3y ago

It makes sense if your employer views your position as commodity, like a warehouse worker. "Here is your labor area we carved out for you to do your commoditized work units, one size fits all". The same reason JIRA is popular with management. Gives them visibility and "metrics" to improve. A less-charitable interpretation of hot-desking is that it's a constant reminder that your job is not secure, and that new people can come and replace you instantly, vs your own personal place in a cubicle or private office signals some amount of commitment that you have "your spot" at the company.

A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
My personal beef that resulted in an email exchange was RTO preceded by an email saying we gotta hotdesk, because we don't have enough space for everyone. I just questioned whether it is a good idea to call people back into the office if you don't have space for them. It was not received well. But it is not about logic.

tivert 3y ago

> I keep saying—if you want me to return to the office, give me an office. Or even a cubicle. Why even enforce a hot-desking setup when the space is 20% full? It makes no sense at all! Cynically, it makes layoffs a lot more opaque. When everyone gets to express their individuality by sitting in an identical, constantly-shifting workspace; you can't "walk by" someone's desk and notice it's cleaned out and their gone. I don't think that's the main reason (the main reason is trying to cheap out on office rent and ape corporate fads), but it's probably a happy added perk for those who are pushing these things.

jakobson14 3y ago
This. Very "don't startle the cattle."

Joeri 3y ago

You know offices are not in a good place when people wistfully wish for the office situation of the workers in office space and the matrix.

numpad0 3y ago

The stupid idea is your value creation should come from internal/external prostitution works and radiating positive energies and importantly not from self playing on computers, because too much in software is measured subjectively and this mindset works for those that can game the system. This shouldn't go on forever, but kind of continue to spread until going against this trends becomes differentiation(and positive outlook in it is there's no way such trend is continuing, or perhaps even happening at at all at this point where random grumpy idiot like I am is rambling about it)