4 ms·

AV1 hardware decoding is still pretty rare, it seems unlikely that the cheap SOCs in smart TVs and the like are able to software decode AV1 at high resolutions.

vetinari 3y ago
Nowadays its pretty common, but not everyone has relatively recent devices.
- deaddodo 3y ago
  Nowadays = this + last generation on nVidia, Intel and AMD GPUs? It's still fairly uncommon on ARM, MIPS, etc GPUs being used in low-cost cores for TVs and set top boxes. Mali being the biggest.
  - phh 3y ago
    > It's still fairly uncommon on ARM, MIPS, etc GPUs being used in low-cost cores for TVs and set top boxes. Youtube made it mandatory to have AV1 decoding in TVs/STBs for new devices since 2? 3? years, so it should become more common. (but embedded SoCs not meant for TV are still way behind.) > Mali being the biggest. FWIW, on the vast majority of devices (well, all that I'm aware of), Mali isn't responsible for hardware video decoding.
    - deaddodo 3y ago
      > Youtube made it mandatory to have AV1 decoding in TVs/STBs for new devices since 2? 3? years, so it should become more common. I think you mean Google, and they made it mandatory for Android. Most of those old devices don't use the latest Android version. And YouTube still happily delivers up VP9 to older versions as recently as two months ago. > FWIW, on the vast majority of devices (well, all that I'm aware of), Mali isn't responsible for hardware video decoding. If you're talking about LG, Samsung and Sony; yeah they have their own image processing hardware. That only applies if you're using the TV's app and not a settop device. To clarify, I'm not claiming there are no AV1 devices or that it's particularly rare. Just stating that it's not ubiquitous enough to be made universal without a large segment of the populace/devices being affected.
      - phh 3y ago
        > I think you mean Google, and they made it mandatory for Android. Most of those old devices don't use the latest Android version. And YouTube still happily delivers up VP9 to older versions as recently as two months ago. I mean Youtube. Mentioning Youtube requirement is more relevant than Android's requirement since many more TVs and STBs ship with Youtube than just Android, and is older than Android's. > If you're talking about LG, Samsung and Sony; yeah they have their own image processing hardware. I'm not. Amlogic, Rockchip, Allwinner, Qualcomm, Broadcom, Mediatek, Unisoc, Google Tensor, Realtek. None of those SoC vendor use Mali for hardware video decoding. Wikipedia [0] list a lot of SoCs using Mali GPU, but doesn't list a single one using Mali video decoder. Looks like they abandoned it since they haven't announced any new version since 2019. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_(processor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_(processor)
    - ThatPlayer 3y ago
      Google's own Chromecast with Google TV 4K that is still their higher end Chromecast doesn't support AV1.
  - vetinari 3y ago
    > Nowadays = this + last generation on nVidia, Intel and AMD GPUs? Roughly; Intel since Tiger Lake (2020); not that it makes much difference. > It's still fairly uncommon on ARM, MIPS, etc GPUs being used in low-cost cores for TVs and set top boxes. Mali being the biggest. Depends; Mediateks and Rockchips do support it; finally also Qualcomm (with AV1 being mandatory in Android 14). I agree, it will take some time (years), until people replace their devices and AV1 will be universally available. But it is available in devices sold today, which was the point.
    - cubefox 3y ago
      The point was that Netflix would simply switch to AV1, which may not be realistically possible for years to come.
      - vetinari 3y ago
        The point was that, quote: > "AV1 hardware decoding is still pretty rare" It is not. It comes with new devices. The issue is, that it will take some time for replacement to be widespread enough, so that Netflix could switch wholesale. But do they have to switch everything, at once? They could switch by targeting the capable devices: AV1, where possible, AVC elsewhere. They probably have such targeting already, but not they will have to disable the HEVC profiles for Germany (or EU).
        cubefox 3y ago
        Support can be pretty rare even when new devices support it. But not even all new iPhones (non-pro) support it, and zero old ones.
        vetinari 3y ago
        Apple is a bad example. See replies here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38250351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38250351
- jlokier 3y ago
  Apple only added hardware AV1 decoders to their new laptops less than a month ago, and to their new phones two months ago. The M2 laptops released in January don't have it. The Apple TV doesn't have it yet, but unlike many set top boxes, it is powerful enough to decode some AV1 streams in software.
  - vetinari 3y ago
    Apple is a specific case, again: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38140486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38140486
    - fomine3 3y ago
      Unfortunately, Qualcomm is also a specific case. So delayed adoption of AV1 HW decoding is majority on mobile.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    Apple is a bad example to go on. They eschew (especially) NIH standards until the point when it's beneficial to them, especially when it's beneficial to another (competing) platform to have interoperability. RCS, PWAs, etc.

vetinari 3y ago

Nowadays its pretty common, but not everyone has relatively recent devices.

deaddodo 3y ago
Nowadays = this + last generation on nVidia, Intel and AMD GPUs? It's still fairly uncommon on ARM, MIPS, etc GPUs being used in low-cost cores for TVs and set top boxes. Mali being the biggest.
- phh 3y ago
  > It's still fairly uncommon on ARM, MIPS, etc GPUs being used in low-cost cores for TVs and set top boxes. Youtube made it mandatory to have AV1 decoding in TVs/STBs for new devices since 2? 3? years, so it should become more common. (but embedded SoCs not meant for TV are still way behind.) > Mali being the biggest. FWIW, on the vast majority of devices (well, all that I'm aware of), Mali isn't responsible for hardware video decoding.
  - deaddodo 3y ago
    > Youtube made it mandatory to have AV1 decoding in TVs/STBs for new devices since 2? 3? years, so it should become more common. I think you mean Google, and they made it mandatory for Android. Most of those old devices don't use the latest Android version. And YouTube still happily delivers up VP9 to older versions as recently as two months ago. > FWIW, on the vast majority of devices (well, all that I'm aware of), Mali isn't responsible for hardware video decoding. If you're talking about LG, Samsung and Sony; yeah they have their own image processing hardware. That only applies if you're using the TV's app and not a settop device. To clarify, I'm not claiming there are no AV1 devices or that it's particularly rare. Just stating that it's not ubiquitous enough to be made universal without a large segment of the populace/devices being affected.
    - phh 3y ago
      > I think you mean Google, and they made it mandatory for Android. Most of those old devices don't use the latest Android version. And YouTube still happily delivers up VP9 to older versions as recently as two months ago. I mean Youtube. Mentioning Youtube requirement is more relevant than Android's requirement since many more TVs and STBs ship with Youtube than just Android, and is older than Android's. > If you're talking about LG, Samsung and Sony; yeah they have their own image processing hardware. I'm not. Amlogic, Rockchip, Allwinner, Qualcomm, Broadcom, Mediatek, Unisoc, Google Tensor, Realtek. None of those SoC vendor use Mali for hardware video decoding. Wikipedia [0] list a lot of SoCs using Mali GPU, but doesn't list a single one using Mali video decoder. Looks like they abandoned it since they haven't announced any new version since 2019. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_(processor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_(processor)
  - ThatPlayer 3y ago
    Google's own Chromecast with Google TV 4K that is still their higher end Chromecast doesn't support AV1.
- vetinari 3y ago
  > Nowadays = this + last generation on nVidia, Intel and AMD GPUs? Roughly; Intel since Tiger Lake (2020); not that it makes much difference. > It's still fairly uncommon on ARM, MIPS, etc GPUs being used in low-cost cores for TVs and set top boxes. Mali being the biggest. Depends; Mediateks and Rockchips do support it; finally also Qualcomm (with AV1 being mandatory in Android 14). I agree, it will take some time (years), until people replace their devices and AV1 will be universally available. But it is available in devices sold today, which was the point.
  - cubefox 3y ago
    The point was that Netflix would simply switch to AV1, which may not be realistically possible for years to come.
    - vetinari 3y ago
      The point was that, quote: > "AV1 hardware decoding is still pretty rare" It is not. It comes with new devices. The issue is, that it will take some time for replacement to be widespread enough, so that Netflix could switch wholesale. But do they have to switch everything, at once? They could switch by targeting the capable devices: AV1, where possible, AVC elsewhere. They probably have such targeting already, but not they will have to disable the HEVC profiles for Germany (or EU).
      - cubefox 3y ago
        Support can be pretty rare even when new devices support it. But not even all new iPhones (non-pro) support it, and zero old ones.
        vetinari 3y ago
        Apple is a bad example. See replies here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38250351 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38250351
jlokier 3y ago
Apple only added hardware AV1 decoders to their new laptops less than a month ago, and to their new phones two months ago. The M2 laptops released in January don't have it. The Apple TV doesn't have it yet, but unlike many set top boxes, it is powerful enough to decode some AV1 streams in software.
- vetinari 3y ago
  Apple is a specific case, again: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38140486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38140486
  - fomine3 3y ago
    Unfortunately, Qualcomm is also a specific case. So delayed adoption of AV1 HW decoding is majority on mobile.
- freedomben 3y ago
  Apple is a bad example to go on. They eschew (especially) NIH standards until the point when it's beneficial to them, especially when it's beneficial to another (competing) platform to have interoperability. RCS, PWAs, etc.