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I didn't understand from the title. But it turns out that Broadcom has pantented "high efficiency video coding" HEVC (which I have seen before as H.265). Netfli

I didn't understand from the title. But it turns out that Broadcom has pantented "high efficiency video coding" HEVC (which I have seen before as H.265). Netflix uses HEVC to stream 4K video. Broadcom sued to stop Netflix from infringing on their patent. Presumably now Netflix will have to pay Broadcom some amount to stream over HEVC.

capableweb 3y ago
> Presumably now Netflix will have to pay Broadcom some amount to stream over HEVC. Presumably, Netflix will in the short-term pay X amount for this but work probably started yesterday or earlier to replace it with something that doesn't have fees to use.
- mikerybka 3y ago
  They've been working with Intel on AV1 hardware since 2019. [1] https://research.netflix.com/publication/AV1%20at%20Netflix https://research.netflix.com/publication/AV1%20at%20Netflix
  - cubefox 3y ago
    Unfortunately AV1 hardware acceleration support was really slow. Apple only just adopted it in their new SoCs. Qualcomm didn't support it until recently either. It's probably still years till the hardware support is anywhere close to H.265, or even H.264 (the currently most common format). It's possible to decode AV1 in software, but the computation requirements are quite high.
    - lern_too_spel 3y ago
      HEVC is from the VP9 generation of codecs. Qualcomm has supported VP9 decoding since 2016 (Snapdragon 820). Unfortunately, no Apple device has ever supported hardware accelerated VP9 decode, so HEVC is the only UHD option on those devices.
    - mort96 3y ago
      I guess it doesn't really matter anyway since AV1 is also patent encumbered...
- KaiserPro 3y ago
  > probably started yesterday or earlier to replace it with something that doesn't have fees to use. For netflix? its not that simple. Video codec design is a mammoth task. Sure you can make your own fairly easily, but making an efficient, hardware accelerated encoder that is suitable for broadcast work is one thing. Making a spec for consumer hardware to implement, efficiently and cheaply is another. go and read the spec for MPEG2, then compare it to MPEG 4, with all the amendments to make h.264. Its a lot of work.
  - jdiff 3y ago
    Probably is a good thing that they've already been on the case for 5+ years with AV1 then.
  - capableweb 3y ago
    I do realize this, I didn't mean literally yesterday as in "the day before today", but more "earlier in time".
stoobs 3y ago
Broadcom aren't on the list of HEVC licensors, so they haven't patented HEVC itself, but some related process of handling HEVC video... Which begs the question, if it's an essential patent, why is it not part of the pool from MPEG-LA?
- pgeorgi 3y ago
  > why is it not part of the pool from MPEG-LA? Maybe Broadcom didn't feel like joining the extortionist pool but preferred to extort the format into uselessness all on its own? There are precious few ways to mandate licensing of a patent of a third party, and MPEG-LA (now Via LA) license pools aren't one of those ways.
- SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
  There's no guaranteed way to find all essential patents, so when MPEG-LA made the standard they just missed (at least) one. MPEG-LA isn't a government, they can't require anyone to license patents to them for their standards.
viktorcode 3y ago
Netflix is known to experiment and use different codecs. They can switch it in Munich in theory

capableweb 3y ago

> Presumably now Netflix will have to pay Broadcom some amount to stream over HEVC. Presumably, Netflix will in the short-term pay X amount for this but work probably started yesterday or earlier to replace it with something that doesn't have fees to use.

mikerybka 3y ago
They've been working with Intel on AV1 hardware since 2019. [1] https://research.netflix.com/publication/AV1%20at%20Netflix https://research.netflix.com/publication/AV1%20at%20Netflix
- cubefox 3y ago
  Unfortunately AV1 hardware acceleration support was really slow. Apple only just adopted it in their new SoCs. Qualcomm didn't support it until recently either. It's probably still years till the hardware support is anywhere close to H.265, or even H.264 (the currently most common format). It's possible to decode AV1 in software, but the computation requirements are quite high.
  - lern_too_spel 3y ago
    HEVC is from the VP9 generation of codecs. Qualcomm has supported VP9 decoding since 2016 (Snapdragon 820). Unfortunately, no Apple device has ever supported hardware accelerated VP9 decode, so HEVC is the only UHD option on those devices.
  - mort96 3y ago
    I guess it doesn't really matter anyway since AV1 is also patent encumbered...
KaiserPro 3y ago
> probably started yesterday or earlier to replace it with something that doesn't have fees to use. For netflix? its not that simple. Video codec design is a mammoth task. Sure you can make your own fairly easily, but making an efficient, hardware accelerated encoder that is suitable for broadcast work is one thing. Making a spec for consumer hardware to implement, efficiently and cheaply is another. go and read the spec for MPEG2, then compare it to MPEG 4, with all the amendments to make h.264. Its a lot of work.
- jdiff 3y ago
  Probably is a good thing that they've already been on the case for 5+ years with AV1 then.
- capableweb 3y ago
  I do realize this, I didn't mean literally yesterday as in "the day before today", but more "earlier in time".

stoobs 3y ago

Broadcom aren't on the list of HEVC licensors, so they haven't patented HEVC itself, but some related process of handling HEVC video... Which begs the question, if it's an essential patent, why is it not part of the pool from MPEG-LA?

pgeorgi 3y ago
> why is it not part of the pool from MPEG-LA? Maybe Broadcom didn't feel like joining the extortionist pool but preferred to extort the format into uselessness all on its own? There are precious few ways to mandate licensing of a patent of a third party, and MPEG-LA (now Via LA) license pools aren't one of those ways.
SAI_Peregrinus 3y ago
There's no guaranteed way to find all essential patents, so when MPEG-LA made the standard they just missed (at least) one. MPEG-LA isn't a government, they can't require anyone to license patents to them for their standards.

viktorcode 3y ago

Netflix is known to experiment and use different codecs. They can switch it in Munich in theory