5 ms·

KFC Christmas dinner in Japan is a fun one. To be fair, all of our major holidays have been co-opted by corporations and they are still warmly celebrated. Going

KFC Christmas dinner in Japan is a fun one. To be fair, all of our major holidays have been co-opted by corporations and they are still warmly celebrated. Going back to wedding rings, giving your new partner something of value is a very old tradition indeed (though what's perceived as valuable has changed greatly).

Retric 3y ago
Giving a partner something of actual value is one thing, but diamonds aren’t worth what you’re paying. That purchase needs to support an entire industry and massive marketing campaign around maintaining an artificial tradition.
- benj111 3y ago
  Define value. You might not value it, but I dare say you value things that I don't value. Define artificial tradition. Yes someone can invent it, but it requires people to actually adopt it. All the trappings of Christmas were invented by someone. They aren't 'artificial' though
  - Retric 3y ago
    Value is defined in free markets by what you can sell something for. Artificial tradition as in created by a marketing campaign to sell a product. Same things as eating “KFC on Christmas” in Japan or more recently “Happy Honda Days” just slightly older and more widespread.
    - benj111 3y ago
      >but diamonds aren’t worth what you’re paying >Value is defined in free markets by what you can sell something for So if someone can sell you a diamond for X, it is worth X. So the diamond is worth what you're paying. Was Christmas created to sell Christianity? I just don't get the distinction. A 'natural' tradition isn't somehow more wholesome, we've just forgotten who invented it. And the meaning still derives from the people partaking in that tradition.
      - Retric 3y ago
        > So if someone can sell you a diamond for X, it is worth X. Note quite, when most people buy land the seller doesn’t receive the full amount you pay realtors get their cut of the transaction. Same deal with used cars etc, the transaction costs are removed from the sales price when calculating value. Commercial Diamonds are just an unusually extreme case. > I just don't get the distinction. A 'natural' tradition isn't somehow more wholesome, we've just forgotten who invented it. And the meaning still derives from the people partaking in that tradition. The meaning of diamonds still derives from advertising which is the haven’t stopped because people stop caring when they do. This clearly demonstrates the artificial nature of what’s happening. Nobody needs to advertise saying excuse me if you bump into someone in a crowd, that has been maintained culturally for a long time without outside influence. Saying someone created it therefore it’s all the same is a meaningless statement. People create different things, saying someone created something doesn’t imply what that thing is.
        benj111 3y ago
        >Note quite, when most people buy land the seller doesn’t receive the full amount you pay realtors get their cut of the transaction. Same deal with used cars etc. In my country house selling generally uses an agency model, I (optionally) employ someone to market my house. I get the full value, and then pay them a fee. A second hand car seller sells the car, they make money by adding value. If I choose to buy a car I can go direct to a seller but they may not have want I want, may not be available at convenient times, and I'll have less come back if things go wrong. >Saying someone created it therefore it’s all the same is a meaningless statement. People create different things, saying someone created something doesn’t imply what that thing is. You're implying who created that thing is more important than what the thing is. So can we agree that it's the thing that's important, not who made it.
        Retric 3y ago
        > I get the full value, and then pay them a fee. It really doesn’t matter how the transaction is structured, sellers can do that legwork themselves but that’s also a cost. If you sell your house for 1 million and taxes eat 10k and the agents eat 10k then the house must be worth 980k to you because that’s what ends up in your bank account. Which is why economics define the term value as what the seller keeps after selling something because if the seller thinks it’s worth more than that they wouldn’t do the transaction. > You’re implying who created the thing is more importantly than what the thing is. No I am arguing what maintains the thing is important. People argue about who created the first iconic foods lie Philly Cheese Stake or Deep Dish Pizza etc, but they don’t need to actively maintain its cultural inertia. Diamond engagement rings on the other hand only exist with active effort on the part of Diamond Merchants. Which is why they keep being advertised as such. It’s trivial to make an idea like an advertising slogan catch on when you’re blasting it over the airwaves regularly, but people very quickly forget about them without regular reinforcement. Here’s some of the most famous US slogans from the 20th century fill in the brand: "All the News That's Fit to Print", "Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't.", "Where's the beef?" "The pause that refreshes" If you’re old enough you might even remember them or the equivalent from where you live, but they aren’t going to roll off the tongue the way more recent examples like “_ eat Fresh”, “Just do it”, “The Best a Man Can Get”, “Like a good neighbor, _ is there.” etc do. Those slogans aren’t better, the difference is just recent advertising budgets.

Retric 3y ago

Giving a partner something of actual value is one thing, but diamonds aren’t worth what you’re paying. That purchase needs to support an entire industry and massive marketing campaign around maintaining an artificial tradition.

benj111 3y ago
Define value. You might not value it, but I dare say you value things that I don't value. Define artificial tradition. Yes someone can invent it, but it requires people to actually adopt it. All the trappings of Christmas were invented by someone. They aren't 'artificial' though
- Retric 3y ago
  Value is defined in free markets by what you can sell something for. Artificial tradition as in created by a marketing campaign to sell a product. Same things as eating “KFC on Christmas” in Japan or more recently “Happy Honda Days” just slightly older and more widespread.
  - benj111 3y ago
    >but diamonds aren’t worth what you’re paying >Value is defined in free markets by what you can sell something for So if someone can sell you a diamond for X, it is worth X. So the diamond is worth what you're paying. Was Christmas created to sell Christianity? I just don't get the distinction. A 'natural' tradition isn't somehow more wholesome, we've just forgotten who invented it. And the meaning still derives from the people partaking in that tradition.
    - Retric 3y ago
      > So if someone can sell you a diamond for X, it is worth X. Note quite, when most people buy land the seller doesn’t receive the full amount you pay realtors get their cut of the transaction. Same deal with used cars etc, the transaction costs are removed from the sales price when calculating value. Commercial Diamonds are just an unusually extreme case. > I just don't get the distinction. A 'natural' tradition isn't somehow more wholesome, we've just forgotten who invented it. And the meaning still derives from the people partaking in that tradition. The meaning of diamonds still derives from advertising which is the haven’t stopped because people stop caring when they do. This clearly demonstrates the artificial nature of what’s happening. Nobody needs to advertise saying excuse me if you bump into someone in a crowd, that has been maintained culturally for a long time without outside influence. Saying someone created it therefore it’s all the same is a meaningless statement. People create different things, saying someone created something doesn’t imply what that thing is.
      - benj111 3y ago
        >Note quite, when most people buy land the seller doesn’t receive the full amount you pay realtors get their cut of the transaction. Same deal with used cars etc. In my country house selling generally uses an agency model, I (optionally) employ someone to market my house. I get the full value, and then pay them a fee. A second hand car seller sells the car, they make money by adding value. If I choose to buy a car I can go direct to a seller but they may not have want I want, may not be available at convenient times, and I'll have less come back if things go wrong. >Saying someone created it therefore it’s all the same is a meaningless statement. People create different things, saying someone created something doesn’t imply what that thing is. You're implying who created that thing is more important than what the thing is. So can we agree that it's the thing that's important, not who made it.
        Retric 3y ago
        > I get the full value, and then pay them a fee. It really doesn’t matter how the transaction is structured, sellers can do that legwork themselves but that’s also a cost. If you sell your house for 1 million and taxes eat 10k and the agents eat 10k then the house must be worth 980k to you because that’s what ends up in your bank account. Which is why economics define the term value as what the seller keeps after selling something because if the seller thinks it’s worth more than that they wouldn’t do the transaction. > You’re implying who created the thing is more importantly than what the thing is. No I am arguing what maintains the thing is important. People argue about who created the first iconic foods lie Philly Cheese Stake or Deep Dish Pizza etc, but they don’t need to actively maintain its cultural inertia. Diamond engagement rings on the other hand only exist with active effort on the part of Diamond Merchants. Which is why they keep being advertised as such. It’s trivial to make an idea like an advertising slogan catch on when you’re blasting it over the airwaves regularly, but people very quickly forget about them without regular reinforcement. Here’s some of the most famous US slogans from the 20th century fill in the brand: "All the News That's Fit to Print", "Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't.", "Where's the beef?" "The pause that refreshes" If you’re old enough you might even remember them or the equivalent from where you live, but they aren’t going to roll off the tongue the way more recent examples like “_ eat Fresh”, “Just do it”, “The Best a Man Can Get”, “Like a good neighbor, _ is there.” etc do. Those slogans aren’t better, the difference is just recent advertising budgets.