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I've used Android phones since I bought the original Motorola Droid the day it came out. This year was the first time I seriously considered switching to an iP

I've used Android phones since I bought the original Motorola Droid the day it came out. This year was the first time I seriously considered switching to an iPhone as I watch their hardware keep progressing while Android manufacturers just copy design and slip in terms of specs. Things like the Lidar sensor show that at least Apple is pushing their devices to do more. Yeah I hate that they eliminated the headphone jack, etc. but Android devices just copy those decisions anyway so they're really starting to feel less like a competitor and more like wannabe iPhones.

lmm 3y ago
Sony still makes top-end phones with headphone jacks, SD card slots, and a camera that doesn't mangle your photos unless you ask it to. The Xperia line is pretty much the perfect phone for the HN crowd.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Those phones don't have the hardware security features found on Pixels.
  - lmm 3y ago
    What features are those and would HN types even want them?
    - matheusmoreira 3y ago
      > would HN types even want them? I bought a Pixel just for GrapheneOS. Can't speak for anyone else. > What features are those There's a rather exhaustive list here: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices Some that stand out to me: > Hardware memory tagging > Isolated radios (cellular, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, NFC, etc.), GPU, SSD, media encode / decode, image processor and other components > Weaver disk encryption key derivation throttling provided by secure element
      - lmm 3y ago
        > Hardware memory tagging Sounds like that's a feature in any ARMv9 processor, which would include current Xperias? What you've linked is a long list but a lot of the items in it are underspecified and hard to search for. Would be good to be able to know what all these features actually do and why they do or don't exist in other models.
        matheusmoreira 3y ago
        Google claims the Pixel 8 is the first handset with that feature. https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2023/11/first-handset-with-mte-on-market.html https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2023/11/first-handset... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38125379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38125379
- CSMastermind 3y ago
  Oh very cool, I wish I knew about them when I got my current phone (Galaxy S23 Ultra). I would have been much happier, will definitely keep them in mind next time I'm in the market for a new phone.
  - wisenull 3y ago
    I also have the same phone because the Sony flagship would be more expensive. It might be worth it for the added features though.
nine_k 3y ago
The headphone jack is not a big issue; a good enough USB to 3.5mm DAC is $20 or so.
- blackboxlogic 3y ago
  So you can't charge your phone and listen to audio at the same time. That sentence would sound crazy 10 years ago.
  - happymellon 3y ago
    I can't speak to the quality of them, as I'm still on a phone with a headphone jack, but there are plenty of Usb C DACs that split the usb c for charging too.
    - interloxia 3y ago
      My xz2c works fine with a cheap splitter. They break once a year or so. The latest one works with PD which is nice. But. A few years later the usb port is almost unusable. Also note that, at least for this old phone, Sony updates stopped two years from when the phone was released which is pretty bad, especially as I bought it a year after it was released.
  - StevePerkins 3y ago
    I haven't plugged a pair of wired headphones OR a charging cable into my phone in 3 to 5 years now. Wireless charging has been a thing for ages, and is standard on any non-budget phone. I understand that some people are still upset about headphone jacks. When Apple first pushed that direction, people convinced me to be upset too. But then I broke down, and went on Amazon and realized that quality Bluetooth headphones are plentiful and cheap and only need charging once or twice a month. After trying a pair, I felt silly for waiting so long. So I'm sure there is SOME audience of people with $500+ Sennheiser headphones, trying to somehow produce an audiophile experience on a cell phone. But the reality is that 99% of normal consumers are better off going wireless and getting the improved water resistance if not better use of space.
matheusmoreira 3y ago
It's not just the inferior hardware either. Google has basically wiped out all the freedom we used to enjoy in Android. Nowadays, if you dare to customize anything, your phone fails hardware attestation because you "tampered" with it. And then the bank apps refuse to work. I still have two reasons not to switch: Termux and GrapheneOS. Who knows what Google's gonna "sunset" next though? There's already hints that the Linux system calls Termux depends on will be locked away by security policies. If that happens I'm gone.
- vore 3y ago
  Don't you have the same problem on iPhone but worse? Since they've never allowed any of this?
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    Allowing this stuff is exactly what makes Android compelling. If they stop allowing it, there's no reason to tolerate its inferiority. There's just no point if Google turns Android into a walled garden. If I must be in a walled garden, I'm choosing the better kept one.

lmm 3y ago

Sony still makes top-end phones with headphone jacks, SD card slots, and a camera that doesn't mangle your photos unless you ask it to. The Xperia line is pretty much the perfect phone for the HN crowd.

matheusmoreira 3y ago
Those phones don't have the hardware security features found on Pixels.
- lmm 3y ago
  What features are those and would HN types even want them?
  - matheusmoreira 3y ago
    > would HN types even want them? I bought a Pixel just for GrapheneOS. Can't speak for anyone else. > What features are those There's a rather exhaustive list here: https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices https://grapheneos.org/faq#future-devices Some that stand out to me: > Hardware memory tagging > Isolated radios (cellular, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, NFC, etc.), GPU, SSD, media encode / decode, image processor and other components > Weaver disk encryption key derivation throttling provided by secure element
    - lmm 3y ago
      > Hardware memory tagging Sounds like that's a feature in any ARMv9 processor, which would include current Xperias? What you've linked is a long list but a lot of the items in it are underspecified and hard to search for. Would be good to be able to know what all these features actually do and why they do or don't exist in other models.
      - matheusmoreira 3y ago
        Google claims the Pixel 8 is the first handset with that feature. https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2023/11/first-handset-with-mte-on-market.html https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/2023/11/first-handset... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38125379 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38125379
CSMastermind 3y ago
Oh very cool, I wish I knew about them when I got my current phone (Galaxy S23 Ultra). I would have been much happier, will definitely keep them in mind next time I'm in the market for a new phone.
- wisenull 3y ago
  I also have the same phone because the Sony flagship would be more expensive. It might be worth it for the added features though.

nine_k 3y ago

The headphone jack is not a big issue; a good enough USB to 3.5mm DAC is $20 or so.

blackboxlogic 3y ago
So you can't charge your phone and listen to audio at the same time. That sentence would sound crazy 10 years ago.
- happymellon 3y ago
  I can't speak to the quality of them, as I'm still on a phone with a headphone jack, but there are plenty of Usb C DACs that split the usb c for charging too.
  - interloxia 3y ago
    My xz2c works fine with a cheap splitter. They break once a year or so. The latest one works with PD which is nice. But. A few years later the usb port is almost unusable. Also note that, at least for this old phone, Sony updates stopped two years from when the phone was released which is pretty bad, especially as I bought it a year after it was released.
- StevePerkins 3y ago
  I haven't plugged a pair of wired headphones OR a charging cable into my phone in 3 to 5 years now. Wireless charging has been a thing for ages, and is standard on any non-budget phone. I understand that some people are still upset about headphone jacks. When Apple first pushed that direction, people convinced me to be upset too. But then I broke down, and went on Amazon and realized that quality Bluetooth headphones are plentiful and cheap and only need charging once or twice a month. After trying a pair, I felt silly for waiting so long. So I'm sure there is SOME audience of people with $500+ Sennheiser headphones, trying to somehow produce an audiophile experience on a cell phone. But the reality is that 99% of normal consumers are better off going wireless and getting the improved water resistance if not better use of space.

matheusmoreira 3y ago

It's not just the inferior hardware either. Google has basically wiped out all the freedom we used to enjoy in Android. Nowadays, if you dare to customize anything, your phone fails hardware attestation because you "tampered" with it. And then the bank apps refuse to work. I still have two reasons not to switch: Termux and GrapheneOS. Who knows what Google's gonna "sunset" next though? There's already hints that the Linux system calls Termux depends on will be locked away by security policies. If that happens I'm gone.

vore 3y ago
Don't you have the same problem on iPhone but worse? Since they've never allowed any of this?
- matheusmoreira 3y ago
  Allowing this stuff is exactly what makes Android compelling. If they stop allowing it, there's no reason to tolerate its inferiority. There's just no point if Google turns Android into a walled garden. If I must be in a walled garden, I'm choosing the better kept one.