18 ms·

Diamonds Suck

233 points by nsomaru 3y ago

exitb 3y ago
To an engineer's eye this might make sense, but the significant cost of a diamond is actually the very point of buying it. And it's hardly an odd thing - the history of human civilisation is littered with examples of spending for the sole purpose of being able parade the purchase.
- omnicognate 3y ago
  I don't think that's news to the author, but even on those terms it's not a great purchase to "parade" if its visually indistinguishable from something with a fraction of the price.
  - exitb 3y ago
    Some people buy expensive watches, even though there are visually indistinguishable clones on the market. I still don't think that a fake Rolex makes for a great gift. I don't really want to advocate for diamonds here. I hate that it's mined at the expense of human welfare. I just want to point out that this article is 17 years old and not much has changed since it was written. Maybe it's not a compelling take?
    - Mordisquitos 3y ago
      > I still don't think that a fake Rolex makes for a great gift. Arguably moissanite is not analogous to a fake Rolex. Rather, it is analogous to an elegant and good quality watch of a non-luxury brand. To that extent, I think that a good Swatch, Seiko or Casio wristwatch can make for a great gift.
      - exitb 3y ago
        I wear a Seiko watch. Never, ever was it mistaken by anyone for a Rolex or any other luxury brand. Meanwhile, the whole discussion around moissanite, including the linked article, is centred around how it makes a better diamond than an actual diamond.
        Mordisquitos 3y ago
        In that case I think the root of the disagreement is our understanding of the role of a diamond as a gem on an engagement ring versus the role of a Rolex as an elegant and good quality wristwatch. If the diamond's function is to be long-lasting, beautiful, and satisfy the expectations in certain cultures of a gemstone to symbolise one has committed to marry a certain person, then moissanite is a cheaper alternative to an actual diamond which is just as good (or arguably better, in terms of beauty). The same goes for a Rolex. If its function is to look good and be a dependable timekeeping instrument, then many other watchmakers can be a perfectly valid and less expensive option. However, if a diamond's only function in an engagement ring is to prove that one's partner has spent a large amount of money to commit to marriage, then of course moissanite would indeed be analogous to a "fake Rolex". But then the whole idea of finding an alternative to diamond engagement rings due to the disproportionate price of diamonds would be to beg the question — there cannot be an alternative, for the very purpose of an engagement ring would be to spend a stupid amount of money.
        jtbayly 3y ago
        Not really. It’s that it’s a better hard, clear crystal gemstone. It could easily be argued that your Seiko makes a better watch than a Rolex. What people are looking for and value in the product will make the argument more or less compelling. One of those things they might value is the similarity to some other well-known, valued product. Moissanite apparently looks like a diamond but better. I could say the same about a number of watches in comparison to Rolex.
    - tecleandor 3y ago
      I think watches can be a bit different... At least expensive watches retain more of their value, or even go way up in the case of Rolex. It's true that for some, a big appeal of a good watch is the "implementation" or the mechanics or electronics that go inside, or the craft on creating it. And others use watches more as jewellery. But there's always somebody that use them to "show off": while some people will buy a "neat" Seiko, Tudor, or even Rolex, there's always one Cristiano Ronaldo that will buy the 2 million dollar gem covered version, or the tourbillon whatever. BTW, today there is people commercializing fake Rolex (and others) of a quality so high that even experts have difficulty distinguishing them from the originals. Apparently they're sold under the excuse of protecting your assets: keep your very expensive Rolex on the bank, bring this replica to the party. And they're not cheap, I think I've seen them for around 2k or 3k euro.
      - johnnymorgan 3y ago
        People using watches as a store ify value is more a commentary on the state of fiat financial networks. A Rolex has scarcity value, and can act as a deflationary asset is what's at play there. I do believe they are having a correction right now as the luxury market starts to bottom.
      - hilbert42 3y ago
        "I think watches can be a bit different... At least expensive watches retain more of their value, or even go way up in the case of Rolex." Buying old Rolex watches is cult activity a bit like buying Elvis's shoes or such at auction for many thousands of dollars—although the latter is likely rarer and ultimately might be of historical interest in centuries to come. Same goes for other engineered products such as old Leicaflex cameras that have sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars when equally engineered high quality products from the same era are simply junked as these days they are perceived to have no value. It mystifies me why people are so enamored with this stuff. There's nothing special about an old Rolex except they were likely near the best of breed when manufactured, but they have little intrinsic historical value nowadays in that they were very unlikely to contain new technology that altered the course of mechanical engineering at the time they were made. They have never had the historical or technical importance of Harrison's remarkable chronometers which did alter the course of history. Let me illustrate with an example: I own two of the first cavity magnetron developed during WWII that went into production and is credited with giving the Allies a huge technological advantage over the Axis Powers. Moreover, they are band new in their original cartons and in better condition than the one in this display model: https://www.theiet.org/membership/library-archives/the-iet-archives/archives-highlights/gec-wembley-laboratories-and-the-cavity-magnetron/ https://www.theiet.org/membership/library-archives/the-iet-a.... (Background info: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260521102_The_Cavity_Magnetron_Not_Just_a_British_Invention_Historical_Corner https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260521102_The_Cavit...) This is truly an historical device that altered history and changed technology—it made centimeter RADAR possible when desperately needed in WWII and it's the forerunner of the device in every microwave oven around the world—yet they're not worth a pinch of shit when compared with an old Rolex—even though there are precious few used ones still in existence (let alone brand new ones in original packaging). Seems to me, like diamonds, the outrageous values of an old Rolex come from cleaver marketing to the gullible and to those with more money than sense. Edit: years ago I bought a fake Rolex in Bangkok for about $20 as a joke, it actually kept reasonably good time and looked reasonably genuine—at least it did from a few feet away.
    - pzs 3y ago
      It took the diamond industry several decades (and huge investments) to build their carefully crafted public image that translates into diamond purchases nowadays. These efforts are still in progress today. I am not sure if there are similar powers and interests behind the moissanite industry to match that. There appears to be some cultural change happening around smoking. It is very slow despite the proven causal relationship between smoking and lung cancer. The tobacco industry is working hard to ensure they can continue to operate and transition to products that are (at least perceived to be) less harmful to people. However, the speed of this change does not appear to be driven by the severity of lung cancer threat, but by the lobbying power of the tobacco industry that ensures they don't go out of business while the transition is happening.
      - RandomLensman 3y ago
        It is probably true as far as retail engagement rings and certain smaller jewelry etc. is concerned, but rich and powerful people liked and valued diamonds way before that long marketing campaign.
  - iteratethis 3y ago
    Even the act of parading in general is questionable in its effectiveness. What is the intended goal? That somebody has a more favorable view of you? I don't think it does that, at all.
- Retric 3y ago
  The original purpose of such gifts was exchanging something of actual value like land not supporting a massive marketing campaign pushing a tradition as fake as Happy Honda Days. Synthetic diamonds have already destroyed the big shiny rock as a display of wealth, but the marketing continues.
- kristiandupont 3y ago
  I'm reminded of this tweet: "it's actually crazy we figured out how to grow real diamonds that are cheaper and better quality than the real thing and so many people are still like, no thanks the suffering is what makes it special." https://twitter.com/missmayn/status/1612892354624786444?lang=en https://twitter.com/missmayn/status/1612892354624786444?lang...
  - ghayes 3y ago
    I don’t love that tweet because it’s not the suffering, but the fact the diamonds were naturally grown in the Earth. Put another way: why would anyone buy sea salt when can we produce pure NaCl? (This is not to say you can or should ignore the suffering caused by the diamond industry)
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      Sea salt is NOT pure NaCl; that's the whole point of eating sea salt! It has significant quantities of other minerals, such as calcium chloride and potassium sulphate. That's why sea salt tastes so different from regular table salt. The reason people buy sea salt (made by evaporating seawater) or table salt (made by mining deposits left from prehistoric seas), is because no one produces these things artificially. There's no good economic reason to do so when you can just dig it up or dry out some seawater: making it artificially would be more expensive. The same economics don't work for diamonds, for various reasons.
  - f1shy 3y ago
    What about lux watches? A 3 dollars Quarz Casio can beat any hand made Rolex in precision… but still some buy it. And in between there are all kinds of possibilities.
    - viciousvoxel 3y ago
      A high quality mechanical watch, aside from being a beautiful object from an artistic and engineering perspective, tends to be a significantly better store of value than diamonds (vs natural diamonds especially)
- lovepronmostly 3y ago
  That's true. Just like people by Gucci, LV, D&G etc. I was in a Prada store once and they were selling an acrylic keychain for $800. There was nothing making the chain better than any other chain except you could show off your Prada chain and I guess hope other people would know you had money to blow.
- stared 3y ago
  It makes sense to waste resources on purpose (e.g. buying overpriced gemstones), at least from the evolutionary perspective - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_principle. Yet, the world would be better if the same amount could be burnt on something with better externalities. If jewelry, then hand-made one.
  - quickthrower2 3y ago
    Diamond were the original cryptocurrency
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  A synthetic diamond for the price of a natural one and the rest goes to a good cause would be great. Some kind of certificate of authenticity to go with it.
RandomLensman 3y ago
Before diamonds were the go-to for engagement rings, color stones like ruby, sapphire, and emerald were the thing. So why should it be mossianite and not going back to other gem stones?
- eviks 3y ago
  Because the specs are better
- debok 3y ago
  My wife likes the color blue. So the rocks on the engagement ring I got her has a mix of Topaz and Sapphire. Also, it only cost about 25% of my salary at that time. Spending 200% monthly salary on a ring makes absolutely no sense.
  - pierat 3y ago
    Check out this company https://www.stagandfinch.com/lab-gems https://www.stagandfinch.com/lab-gems And this is my favorite https://www.stagandfinch.com/product-page/paraiba-teal-yag-2 https://www.stagandfinch.com/product-page/paraiba-teal-yag-2. ... And is what what my partner's stone is.
- weevil 3y ago
  Just another option.
- calgoo 3y ago
  I did sapphires in my engagement ring. Love their blue color!
- tuetuopay 3y ago
  It still is in other parts of the world! Here in France a single diamond ring is quite rare. Sapphire, emerald, ruby, etc rings are very very common. They are usually lined with tiny diamonds around to add a bit of sparkle around a large gem. However due to Americanization of the cultures, people start to do it the american way (we call it a "solitaire", solitary diamond). Three couples in my friend group got engaged recently, all three had colored gems on their rings. Diamonds were in support of the main gem to enhance it, not the star of the show. That's a sample of N=3, but very much part of the French culture.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tromp 3y ago
This site is mentioned in the top comment of another thread on diamonds today at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762
semanticc 3y ago
The [artificial] scarcity and [unjustifiably] high price are properties of almost all luxury goods. And those are exactly what makes them (watches, handbags, diamonds etc.) so desirable to many. I fully agree that spending two months' gross salary on an engagement ring is way too much though, and I would never ever get into debt for that. But, similarly as I enjoy wearing a relatively useless but expensive watch daily, I didn't mind dropping approx. 2/3 of a month's net salary on my fiancé's diamond engagement ring, which she got to choose and now cherishes and admires every day.
pierat 3y ago
I got my partner a platinum ring with a YAG stone grown and cut to my speficiations. I also designed the ring, and had it made. The YAG stone is bright blue-green, and just as shiny as diamonds. And on the upside, the local jewewer made it from the 3d printed wax cast, and the stone was grown by scientists. No slave labor or child labor was used in any way.
aurizon 3y ago
This is a socially engineered marketing racket. The earth diamond peddlers came out with a laser mark/blemish visible under a microscope to create a non fakeable brand for earth diamonds and are trying to hold those as a premium 'natural' product. A desperate rear guard action to preserve their racket - that is what it is, - a racket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeering
- spokeonawheel 3y ago
  isnt all of marketing socian engineering?
  - aurizon 3y ago
    survivalship
vasdae 3y ago
Imagine wanting to marry someone and buying a ring with a rock that pretends to be a diamond but is worth <10% of what a diamond costs.
- weevil 3y ago
  Interesting that you (presumably) read the article and came to this conclusion.
  - vasdae 3y ago
    [dead]
    - kelnos 3y ago
      Perhaps, but it's pretty sad that we buy things just because they're expensive. In most cases it's just a waste, and you're only hurting your own bank account, but when it comes to diamonds, it actually causes harm. And yes, I did buy my partner a diamond engagement ring. I wish I'd tried harder to see if she could be happy (or happier, even) with something else, or at least a lab-grown diamond.
    - kwere 3y ago
      >the point of a diamond is that it's expensive its just a marketing stunt that became a culture icon in a society weak to commercial propaganda last century. Its basically a tacky display of status or a modern bride price, something socially incompetent nerds find funny outside the blood part
- stared 3y ago
  A: And this rock was not soaked in the blood of slave child workers... B: So, how do you expect it to have the magical power to keep your love?!
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Ok I get ya. Need to spend $20k or whatever. But why a diamond? So many other things you can spend that on that would be a nice keepsake.
weevil 3y ago
My partner and I specifically avoided diamonds (and ultimately all gemstones) for our engagement rings. We went for unobtrusive silver rings, then shelled out for good quality gold wedding rings from a craftsperson we both knew. I think we spent about $1500 on rings in total and, can you believe it, our marriage has not fallen apart because we didn't spend thousands of dollars getting shiny rocks for our fingers.
- imjonse 3y ago
  your marriage was protected from falling apart by shiny metals on your fingers :)
  - weevil 3y ago
    Sssh don't tell anyone that's our secret!
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  Well, you did spend 1.5 thousands of dollars... I know people who buy a car for that price
  - mauvehaus 3y ago
    I've bought cars in that price range, but I wouldn't say any of them were "forever".
glimshe 3y ago
The diamond tradition became a ridiculous cultural trait, buy lab-grown diamonds can help greatly mitigate the wastefulness of regular natural diamonds. I don't think Moissanite is the right replacement - they have too much of the so-called "fire", almost too sparkly as the article shows. I think Moissanites are inferior to diamonds in appearance in my personal, subjective opinion. Lab-grown diamonds, however, can be had for as low as 20% of the price of natural diamonds (for large sizes), often less than Moissanite, and absolutely look the part. You simply can't tell the difference between a lab-grown diamond and a natural diamond without highly specialized equipment because they are, well, the same thing and differ only in minute growth "marks" in their fine structure. If I'm not mistaken, there is regulation preventing companies from calling competitors' lab-grown diamonds "fake diamonds", and retailers can call them "real diamonds" (but NOT "natural diamonds"). I got my wife of 15 years a large lab-grown diamond ring from Ritani for ~2K and she loves it. She won't take it out. Everybody is blown away by it because an equivalent natural diamond ring would go for ~10-15K.
- refurb 3y ago
  I always wondered what lab grown diamonds for jewelry would cost, so I googled "Ritani". Wow, you can get a 3 carat, VVS1/VVS2, ideal cut, colorless for $3,000. That's a huge stone and very high quality. That would be a $15,000+ diamond if natural.
  - A_D_E_P_T 3y ago
    This is really quite new. China and India, just over the past few years, have turned synthetic diamond production into a serious industry, and the fact that there are so many small producers is leading to a "race to the bottom" on pricing. A race we're now right in the middle of. Within just a few years, synthetic diamond might be nearly as cheap as synthetic ruby. (The raw materials are equally cheap, but making diamond is a more laborious and energy-intensive process, so it'll always be somewhat more expensive.)
  - causi 3y ago
    What's the profit margin on a 0.6 gram chunk of fancy carbon being sold for three grand?
eppo999 3y ago
On Netflix there is a nice documentary about this: Nothing Lasts Forever
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Thomashuet 3y ago
I have an even cheaper solution: just don't buy a ring. It all depends on what your partner wants obviously. If it's important for your partner to get a diamond ring and you value your partnership more than the cost of a diamond, then buy a diamond. If your partner wants a "I'm married" sign (as my wife did), just buy a simple wedding ring without a stone. If it's not that important for her, don't buy a ring.
- shiroiuma 3y ago
  This of course is true and makes sense, but you could also say the same thing about eating dinner in a restaurant: you could save money by skipping a meal, or by getting a frozen meal at the supermarket. A restaurant meal at a decent restaurant isn't that expensive (though it is pretty bad in the US these days; other countries are much better). A ring doesn't have to be expensive: you can get a nice titanium ring for under $100. And unlike some other rings, it has some major benefits: 1) it's super-lightweight, so you can barely feel it (gold is heavy), 2) it's hypo-allergenic, in case you might have a sensitivity to anything in other rings, and best of all, 3) if you're stuck in an undersea oil rig that's flooding and one of the automatic flood doors is closing and about to trap you inside, you can stick your hand with the ring in the door and prevent it from closing, so you can escape.
  - GTP 3y ago
    Number 3 seems a good idea for a 007 movie :D
    - mrec 3y ago
      I think GP was referring to that exact thing happening in The Abyss.
      - shiroiuma 3y ago
        I forgot to add the reason why there's a moral imperative to wearing a titanium ring instead of a diamond one: after saving yourself from drowning with the titanium ring, you can then descend to the ocean floor in an experimental diving suit, disarm a nuclear bomb dropped there by some nutcase that threatens a bunch of ocean-dwelling aliens, and impress them with your intended sacrifice (since your suit only has enough oxygen for a one-way trip) that they decide not to wipe out much of humanity with simultaneous tsunamis.
rsyring 3y ago
2006
dbrgn 3y ago
I, as a European, cannot fathom how anyone would spend a significant amount of money on an engagement ring! The engagement rings we got ourselves cost 18$ and were made from wood. After all, they only need to last a few months, or maybe 1-2 years, until the wedding. Regarding the wedding ring, I can understand slightly better how someone would put a bit more money into that, considering that you wear it for life. But there are so much better options than buying a shiny rock. Why not go to a goldsmith and pay 1000$ for a workshop where you forge your own rings? That will result in a lasting memory of a nice event, for a fraction of the cost, instead of throwing thousands of dollars out the window for a shiny rock that you simply buy at the store. Or maybe you don't even need gold? In my opinion, silver, titanium or maybe something like steel combined with carbon fibers looks better anyways.
- davidhalter 3y ago
  Same here. I still cherish my 5$ wooden wedding ring. There's such beautiful wooden jewelry out there.
- fardinahsan 3y ago
  Because "creating memories" can't be exchanged for social status.
- throwaway287391 3y ago
  > After all, [engagement rings] only need to last a few months, or maybe 1-2 years, until the wedding. I think this is the cultural distinction you're missing -- married American women typically wear both their engagement and wedding ring their entire lives, and the engagement ring is usually the more ornate/expensive one (which might be due to the De Beers marketing throughout the 20th century this article discusses).
  - AndyJames 3y ago
    The thing is it's not the culture or tradition of the US. It's just a brilliant ad campaign that lasted way longer than it should.
uwagar 3y ago
women should refuse diamond ring as engagement ring.
janosdebugs 3y ago
My wife and I bought a titanium ring with a wood inlay for our wedding. Would buy again.
cyclecount 3y ago
>> it's actually crazy we figured out how to grow real diamonds that are cheaper and better quality than the real thing and so many people are still like, no thanks the suffering is what makes it special. https://twitter.com/missmayn/status/1612892354624786444 https://twitter.com/missmayn/status/1612892354624786444
anonu 3y ago
There is a bit of a cultural signaling to your future wife to say you are financially competent/stable that you were able to buy a diamond ring. Now you need to switch the narrative to say actually I didn't spend so we could buy an index fund instead. I don't buy the flawless argument in the article. I think people look for some flaws in diamonds. A perfect rock would look "fake". The big change since 2006 when the article was written is that there are manufactured diamonds now.
- master-lincoln 3y ago
  > There is a bit of a cultural signaling to your future wife to say you are financially competent/stable that you were able to buy a diamond ring In modern cultures I would assume the couple already knows each other and their financial situation before marrying. So why waste money on richness signaling especially if you are not rich?
bocytron 3y ago
Previous discussions: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=diamondssuck https://hn.algolia.com/?query=diamondssuck
TedHerman 3y ago
Some thoughts from a mineral collector. There is considerable variety in naturally occurring diamonds. Colors, such as yellow, green, brown, black and famously a few blue and pink ones. Plus many crystal forms (Cubic, Octahedral, Dodecahedral, Tetrahedral, Trapezohedral, Tetrahexahedral,Trisoctahedral, Hexoctahedral, and some triangular Macle forms). An appeal of natural diamonds to some mineral collectors is the interest their unique crystal forms. These are expensive and tiny: a niche that I don't have in my collection. However, I did purchase a large cluster of what I think consists Moissanite crystals, not transparent; it looks like some failed industrial experiment.
thih9 3y ago
Also applies to wine, audiophile grade gear, and similar kind of goods - most people can’t tell the difference. Then there’s designer brands, which openly sell products of inferior quality. And with success too. I guess diamonds are similar to both.
jliptzin 3y ago
If you can get people to stop buying diamonds you could turn religious people into atheists. So, by and large, it’s not happening.
makach 3y ago
Diamonds suck indeed. They are easily reproduced and are artificially kept at a high price by big business Gold on the other side, is impossible to reproduce and is a very rare metal that will have many fine uses. You can do anything to it and it won't lose its value. I will never understand why some women require worthless diamonds. It's a crystal, it reflects and will lose its value if broken.
- hilbert42 3y ago
  "I will never understand why some women require worthless diamonds." Marketing, it's a cleverly crafted fashion statement long-ingrained in culture by monopolistic cartel member De Beers. The artificially high prices maintained by the diamond cartel must end, diamonds are too valuable to industry for industrial purposes than to let these bastards run the show.
sambalbadjak 3y ago
lol, I forwarded this article to my girlfriend, and she immediately responded: absolutely not! I guess some things are not meant to be optimised. She mentioned that you can buy a lab-grown diamond for much cheaper, and keep the same shine as a "real" diamond.
- fsflover 3y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38247835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38247835
gadders 3y ago
You need to factor in the game theory implications: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2005.3152 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.200...
ot1138 3y ago
But my wife is really happy with her $250k diamond. Saved my ass on many occasions!
mfscholar 3y ago
Why not buy her a gold bar instead? They can be as expensive/ valuable as you like and she can see it as an investment. It can't be worn on a finger of course, but where I'm from, people only wear the engagement ring before their wedding.
thdespou 3y ago
Reading this while listening to "Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend"
bovermyer 3y ago
Orrrr you can do what my wife and I did: just get those silicone rings. They come in lots of styles, you can wear them while working out or diving or any other physical activity, and they're much cheaper than actual jewelry.
- marssaxman 3y ago
  My wife and I tried that, while we were living on a sailboat, but I was disappointed by the lack of durability; my silicone ring only lasted six months.
  - bovermyer 3y ago
    Interesting. Mine has lasted for five years now.
TacticalCoder 3y ago
This is wrong: > 3. A diamond is an illiquid asset, not an "investment". Don't believe me? Try to sell a second-hand diamond ring on eBay or at a pawn shop. Do you really think you'll get anything close to what you paid for it? Yes you'll get close to what you paid for it if you buy it the same way jewelers buy it. There's an ultra liquid market for diamonds: a friend jeweler showed it to me. He needs a diamond to make a ring? He goes on a website where diamonds are sorted by their four Cs (clarity/cut/color/carat) and their price and all guaranteed legit. And he buys it at market price. Of course if you overpay 3x the price by buying the diamond as part of a complete ring, you're sorry out of luck. Now the diamond market may crash too, but that is another topic. If your wife/fiance really insists on having a diamond: find a reputable jeweler and tell him you want to pick the stone with him, on such a site. And that you're willing willing to pay for the ring and his craftmanship but that you don't want to pay the stone 3x the price for what is actually two clicks for him. Heck, you can even bring your own stone to the jeweler (I did it, with a family heirloom diamond). You can even bring a picture of a famous brand and say you want the same shape of ring: they're not supposed to do it but they'll gladly copy the famous ring (I didn't do that but I know someone who did). BTW while you're at it buy a diamond that comes with a certificate. And if you want to pay 1/5th of the price: then buy a lab-grown diamond instead of moissanite for 1/10th of the price. To me moissanite is a bit too shiny. While a lab-grown diamond or a "real" diamond are the exact same thing. See user glimshe 's comment in this thread.
- hef19898 3y ago
  Also, jewelery is a luxury, an indulgence ideally bought to feel good and enjoy. If you treat luxury goods as investment, unless your job is buying and selling luxury goods, you are already out of luck from the very start.
- heresie-dabord 3y ago
  > If your wife/fiance really insists on having a diamond: ... rethink whom you are marrying and maybe the practice of marriage itself.
- xtiansimon 3y ago
  > “…you can even bring your own stone to the jeweler…” I’m curious, how would you know the diamond you gave the jeweler was the same diamond they put into the ring, as a layman?
throwaway_13140 3y ago
The real question is, Josh are you still married? This was originally written in 2006.
beavis000 3y ago
Not to hijack the thread, but weddings are significantly suckier. The cost is several multiples more than a diamond (natural or lab), only lasts one night, and is typically a large source of stress. Just have a party at a restaurant and use the $50k-$100k saved for student debt or rent or kids school.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  Yeah I never understood people spending crazy amounts of money, especially when they could use that to much better use that would make greater the chances of the mariage to last long. It is not supposed to be the best day of your life. It would means all goes downhill from there which is the opposite of what you want your marriage/life partnership to be.
zzzcsgo 3y ago
Diamonds are a good tool.... Not so much a good jewelry
moogly 3y ago
My favorite quote by someone on a forum a decade or two ago: > Man-made diamonds are forged from the will and brilliance of man. > Millions of years of loving relationship have lead up this point and have been distilled into 2 carats of sparkling magic, > brought forth from the ether of the universe by man's desire to express his love. > > Or you could dig up some dirty rock from the ground, like an animal would do.
1letterunixname 3y ago
This person either doesn't get laid, has an atypical understanding partner, or no partner at all. While DeBeers and Madison Ave. crafted a tradition to artificially inflate the value of this specific gem, create a monopoly cartel around it, and established it as a material standard of love and "suitability" for marriage, it's been subsumed by culture as much as children demand Christmas such that the odds of escaping this manufactured foolishness are scant. For example, what % of women would date a man if they heard he was a Cornell grad vs. a self-employed electrician? The individual has a Hobson choice to either follow a convention, pretend to follow it, or ignore it altogether. Without being subject to these peer pressures, I would prefer to allocate to coin to investments and reducing debt, and instead carve a ring from a wax blank to be cast in a metal like platinum or silver. The non-salaried working man trying to enter marriage with the demands of a large wedding party and an expensive diamond ring bought on credit would be economically foot-gunning themselves. It still happens everyday and keeps the diamond business in business.
Justsignedup 3y ago
Me and my fiance read this some years back. I ended up getting her a massionite ring and she absolutely wows everyone with it. And it was less than a grand. Even people wealthier than me get impressed because the diamond industry is indeed a cartel with vastly over-priced costs. In any case. She's extremely happy. I'm happy. My wallet is happy. It's honestly the best decision.
gwbas1c 3y ago
One of the extremely frustrating things that I experienced when purchasing my wife's engagement was the pressure from my family to buy diamonds: When I was a teenager in the 1990s, and moissanite came out, I listened to my older cousin go off on how she would dump any man who tried to pass off a moissanite to her. Then my mother kept confusing moissanite with cubic zirconia, and kept telling me stories about cheap men who bought their fiancées rings that broke. I bought my wife a moissanite, but I was so afraid that she was just saying that she wanted a moissanite to merely humor me. What I did was give her matching moissanite earrings a month before I proposed to her. She loved the earrings, so I knew she'd love the ring.
ChrisArchitect 3y ago
Related discussion (probably why this was even posted, again): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762

233 points by nsomaru 3y ago

To an engineer's eye this might make sense, but the significant cost of a diamond is actually the very point of buying it. And it's hardly an odd thing - the history of human civilisation is littered with examples of spending for the sole purpose of being able parade the purchase.

omnicognate 3y ago
I don't think that's news to the author, but even on those terms it's not a great purchase to "parade" if its visually indistinguishable from something with a fraction of the price.
- exitb 3y ago
  Some people buy expensive watches, even though there are visually indistinguishable clones on the market. I still don't think that a fake Rolex makes for a great gift. I don't really want to advocate for diamonds here. I hate that it's mined at the expense of human welfare. I just want to point out that this article is 17 years old and not much has changed since it was written. Maybe it's not a compelling take?
  - Mordisquitos 3y ago
    > I still don't think that a fake Rolex makes for a great gift. Arguably moissanite is not analogous to a fake Rolex. Rather, it is analogous to an elegant and good quality watch of a non-luxury brand. To that extent, I think that a good Swatch, Seiko or Casio wristwatch can make for a great gift.
    - exitb 3y ago
      I wear a Seiko watch. Never, ever was it mistaken by anyone for a Rolex or any other luxury brand. Meanwhile, the whole discussion around moissanite, including the linked article, is centred around how it makes a better diamond than an actual diamond.
      - Mordisquitos 3y ago
        In that case I think the root of the disagreement is our understanding of the role of a diamond as a gem on an engagement ring versus the role of a Rolex as an elegant and good quality wristwatch. If the diamond's function is to be long-lasting, beautiful, and satisfy the expectations in certain cultures of a gemstone to symbolise one has committed to marry a certain person, then moissanite is a cheaper alternative to an actual diamond which is just as good (or arguably better, in terms of beauty). The same goes for a Rolex. If its function is to look good and be a dependable timekeeping instrument, then many other watchmakers can be a perfectly valid and less expensive option. However, if a diamond's only function in an engagement ring is to prove that one's partner has spent a large amount of money to commit to marriage, then of course moissanite would indeed be analogous to a "fake Rolex". But then the whole idea of finding an alternative to diamond engagement rings due to the disproportionate price of diamonds would be to beg the question — there cannot be an alternative, for the very purpose of an engagement ring would be to spend a stupid amount of money.
      - jtbayly 3y ago
        Not really. It’s that it’s a better hard, clear crystal gemstone. It could easily be argued that your Seiko makes a better watch than a Rolex. What people are looking for and value in the product will make the argument more or less compelling. One of those things they might value is the similarity to some other well-known, valued product. Moissanite apparently looks like a diamond but better. I could say the same about a number of watches in comparison to Rolex.
  - tecleandor 3y ago
    I think watches can be a bit different... At least expensive watches retain more of their value, or even go way up in the case of Rolex. It's true that for some, a big appeal of a good watch is the "implementation" or the mechanics or electronics that go inside, or the craft on creating it. And others use watches more as jewellery. But there's always somebody that use them to "show off": while some people will buy a "neat" Seiko, Tudor, or even Rolex, there's always one Cristiano Ronaldo that will buy the 2 million dollar gem covered version, or the tourbillon whatever. BTW, today there is people commercializing fake Rolex (and others) of a quality so high that even experts have difficulty distinguishing them from the originals. Apparently they're sold under the excuse of protecting your assets: keep your very expensive Rolex on the bank, bring this replica to the party. And they're not cheap, I think I've seen them for around 2k or 3k euro.
    - johnnymorgan 3y ago
      People using watches as a store ify value is more a commentary on the state of fiat financial networks. A Rolex has scarcity value, and can act as a deflationary asset is what's at play there. I do believe they are having a correction right now as the luxury market starts to bottom.
    - hilbert42 3y ago
      "I think watches can be a bit different... At least expensive watches retain more of their value, or even go way up in the case of Rolex." Buying old Rolex watches is cult activity a bit like buying Elvis's shoes or such at auction for many thousands of dollars—although the latter is likely rarer and ultimately might be of historical interest in centuries to come. Same goes for other engineered products such as old Leicaflex cameras that have sold for hundreds of thousands of dollars when equally engineered high quality products from the same era are simply junked as these days they are perceived to have no value. It mystifies me why people are so enamored with this stuff. There's nothing special about an old Rolex except they were likely near the best of breed when manufactured, but they have little intrinsic historical value nowadays in that they were very unlikely to contain new technology that altered the course of mechanical engineering at the time they were made. They have never had the historical or technical importance of Harrison's remarkable chronometers which did alter the course of history. Let me illustrate with an example: I own two of the first cavity magnetron developed during WWII that went into production and is credited with giving the Allies a huge technological advantage over the Axis Powers. Moreover, they are band new in their original cartons and in better condition than the one in this display model: https://www.theiet.org/membership/library-archives/the-iet-archives/archives-highlights/gec-wembley-laboratories-and-the-cavity-magnetron/ https://www.theiet.org/membership/library-archives/the-iet-a.... (Background info: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260521102_The_Cavity_Magnetron_Not_Just_a_British_Invention_Historical_Corner https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260521102_The_Cavit...) This is truly an historical device that altered history and changed technology—it made centimeter RADAR possible when desperately needed in WWII and it's the forerunner of the device in every microwave oven around the world—yet they're not worth a pinch of shit when compared with an old Rolex—even though there are precious few used ones still in existence (let alone brand new ones in original packaging). Seems to me, like diamonds, the outrageous values of an old Rolex come from cleaver marketing to the gullible and to those with more money than sense. Edit: years ago I bought a fake Rolex in Bangkok for about $20 as a joke, it actually kept reasonably good time and looked reasonably genuine—at least it did from a few feet away.
  - pzs 3y ago
    It took the diamond industry several decades (and huge investments) to build their carefully crafted public image that translates into diamond purchases nowadays. These efforts are still in progress today. I am not sure if there are similar powers and interests behind the moissanite industry to match that. There appears to be some cultural change happening around smoking. It is very slow despite the proven causal relationship between smoking and lung cancer. The tobacco industry is working hard to ensure they can continue to operate and transition to products that are (at least perceived to be) less harmful to people. However, the speed of this change does not appear to be driven by the severity of lung cancer threat, but by the lobbying power of the tobacco industry that ensures they don't go out of business while the transition is happening.
    - RandomLensman 3y ago
      It is probably true as far as retail engagement rings and certain smaller jewelry etc. is concerned, but rich and powerful people liked and valued diamonds way before that long marketing campaign.
- iteratethis 3y ago
  Even the act of parading in general is questionable in its effectiveness. What is the intended goal? That somebody has a more favorable view of you? I don't think it does that, at all.
Retric 3y ago
The original purpose of such gifts was exchanging something of actual value like land not supporting a massive marketing campaign pushing a tradition as fake as Happy Honda Days. Synthetic diamonds have already destroyed the big shiny rock as a display of wealth, but the marketing continues.
kristiandupont 3y ago
I'm reminded of this tweet: "it's actually crazy we figured out how to grow real diamonds that are cheaper and better quality than the real thing and so many people are still like, no thanks the suffering is what makes it special." https://twitter.com/missmayn/status/1612892354624786444?lang=en https://twitter.com/missmayn/status/1612892354624786444?lang...
- ghayes 3y ago
  I don’t love that tweet because it’s not the suffering, but the fact the diamonds were naturally grown in the Earth. Put another way: why would anyone buy sea salt when can we produce pure NaCl? (This is not to say you can or should ignore the suffering caused by the diamond industry)
  - shiroiuma 3y ago
    Sea salt is NOT pure NaCl; that's the whole point of eating sea salt! It has significant quantities of other minerals, such as calcium chloride and potassium sulphate. That's why sea salt tastes so different from regular table salt. The reason people buy sea salt (made by evaporating seawater) or table salt (made by mining deposits left from prehistoric seas), is because no one produces these things artificially. There's no good economic reason to do so when you can just dig it up or dry out some seawater: making it artificially would be more expensive. The same economics don't work for diamonds, for various reasons.
- f1shy 3y ago
  What about lux watches? A 3 dollars Quarz Casio can beat any hand made Rolex in precision… but still some buy it. And in between there are all kinds of possibilities.
  - viciousvoxel 3y ago
    A high quality mechanical watch, aside from being a beautiful object from an artistic and engineering perspective, tends to be a significantly better store of value than diamonds (vs natural diamonds especially)
lovepronmostly 3y ago
That's true. Just like people by Gucci, LV, D&G etc. I was in a Prada store once and they were selling an acrylic keychain for $800. There was nothing making the chain better than any other chain except you could show off your Prada chain and I guess hope other people would know you had money to blow.
stared 3y ago
It makes sense to waste resources on purpose (e.g. buying overpriced gemstones), at least from the evolutionary perspective - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_principle. Yet, the world would be better if the same amount could be burnt on something with better externalities. If jewelry, then hand-made one.
- quickthrower2 3y ago
  Diamond were the original cryptocurrency
quickthrower2 3y ago
A synthetic diamond for the price of a natural one and the rest goes to a good cause would be great. Some kind of certificate of authenticity to go with it.

RandomLensman 3y ago

Before diamonds were the go-to for engagement rings, color stones like ruby, sapphire, and emerald were the thing. So why should it be mossianite and not going back to other gem stones?

eviks 3y ago
Because the specs are better
debok 3y ago
My wife likes the color blue. So the rocks on the engagement ring I got her has a mix of Topaz and Sapphire. Also, it only cost about 25% of my salary at that time. Spending 200% monthly salary on a ring makes absolutely no sense.
- pierat 3y ago
  Check out this company https://www.stagandfinch.com/lab-gems https://www.stagandfinch.com/lab-gems And this is my favorite https://www.stagandfinch.com/product-page/paraiba-teal-yag-2 https://www.stagandfinch.com/product-page/paraiba-teal-yag-2. ... And is what what my partner's stone is.
weevil 3y ago
Just another option.
calgoo 3y ago
I did sapphires in my engagement ring. Love their blue color!
tuetuopay 3y ago
It still is in other parts of the world! Here in France a single diamond ring is quite rare. Sapphire, emerald, ruby, etc rings are very very common. They are usually lined with tiny diamonds around to add a bit of sparkle around a large gem. However due to Americanization of the cultures, people start to do it the american way (we call it a "solitaire", solitary diamond). Three couples in my friend group got engaged recently, all three had colored gems on their rings. Diamonds were in support of the main gem to enhance it, not the star of the show. That's a sample of N=3, but very much part of the French culture.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tromp 3y ago

This site is mentioned in the top comment of another thread on diamonds today at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762

semanticc 3y ago

The [artificial] scarcity and [unjustifiably] high price are properties of almost all luxury goods. And those are exactly what makes them (watches, handbags, diamonds etc.) so desirable to many. I fully agree that spending two months' gross salary on an engagement ring is way too much though, and I would never ever get into debt for that. But, similarly as I enjoy wearing a relatively useless but expensive watch daily, I didn't mind dropping approx. 2/3 of a month's net salary on my fiancé's diamond engagement ring, which she got to choose and now cherishes and admires every day.

pierat 3y ago

I got my partner a platinum ring with a YAG stone grown and cut to my speficiations. I also designed the ring, and had it made. The YAG stone is bright blue-green, and just as shiny as diamonds. And on the upside, the local jewewer made it from the 3d printed wax cast, and the stone was grown by scientists. No slave labor or child labor was used in any way.

aurizon 3y ago

This is a socially engineered marketing racket. The earth diamond peddlers came out with a laser mark/blemish visible under a microscope to create a non fakeable brand for earth diamonds and are trying to hold those as a premium 'natural' product. A desperate rear guard action to preserve their racket - that is what it is, - a racket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeering

spokeonawheel 3y ago
isnt all of marketing socian engineering?
- aurizon 3y ago
  survivalship

vasdae 3y ago

Imagine wanting to marry someone and buying a ring with a rock that pretends to be a diamond but is worth <10% of what a diamond costs.

weevil 3y ago
Interesting that you (presumably) read the article and came to this conclusion.
- vasdae 3y ago
  [dead]
  - kelnos 3y ago
    Perhaps, but it's pretty sad that we buy things just because they're expensive. In most cases it's just a waste, and you're only hurting your own bank account, but when it comes to diamonds, it actually causes harm. And yes, I did buy my partner a diamond engagement ring. I wish I'd tried harder to see if she could be happy (or happier, even) with something else, or at least a lab-grown diamond.
  - kwere 3y ago
    >the point of a diamond is that it's expensive its just a marketing stunt that became a culture icon in a society weak to commercial propaganda last century. Its basically a tacky display of status or a modern bride price, something socially incompetent nerds find funny outside the blood part
stared 3y ago
A: And this rock was not soaked in the blood of slave child workers... B: So, how do you expect it to have the magical power to keep your love?!
quickthrower2 3y ago
Ok I get ya. Need to spend $20k or whatever. But why a diamond? So many other things you can spend that on that would be a nice keepsake.

weevil 3y ago

My partner and I specifically avoided diamonds (and ultimately all gemstones) for our engagement rings. We went for unobtrusive silver rings, then shelled out for good quality gold wedding rings from a craftsperson we both knew. I think we spent about $1500 on rings in total and, can you believe it, our marriage has not fallen apart because we didn't spend thousands of dollars getting shiny rocks for our fingers.

imjonse 3y ago
your marriage was protected from falling apart by shiny metals on your fingers :)
- weevil 3y ago
  Sssh don't tell anyone that's our secret!
master-lincoln 3y ago
Well, you did spend 1.5 thousands of dollars... I know people who buy a car for that price
- mauvehaus 3y ago
  I've bought cars in that price range, but I wouldn't say any of them were "forever".

glimshe 3y ago

The diamond tradition became a ridiculous cultural trait, buy lab-grown diamonds can help greatly mitigate the wastefulness of regular natural diamonds. I don't think Moissanite is the right replacement - they have too much of the so-called "fire", almost too sparkly as the article shows. I think Moissanites are inferior to diamonds in appearance in my personal, subjective opinion. Lab-grown diamonds, however, can be had for as low as 20% of the price of natural diamonds (for large sizes), often less than Moissanite, and absolutely look the part. You simply can't tell the difference between a lab-grown diamond and a natural diamond without highly specialized equipment because they are, well, the same thing and differ only in minute growth "marks" in their fine structure. If I'm not mistaken, there is regulation preventing companies from calling competitors' lab-grown diamonds "fake diamonds", and retailers can call them "real diamonds" (but NOT "natural diamonds"). I got my wife of 15 years a large lab-grown diamond ring from Ritani for ~2K and she loves it. She won't take it out. Everybody is blown away by it because an equivalent natural diamond ring would go for ~10-15K.

refurb 3y ago
I always wondered what lab grown diamonds for jewelry would cost, so I googled "Ritani". Wow, you can get a 3 carat, VVS1/VVS2, ideal cut, colorless for $3,000. That's a huge stone and very high quality. That would be a $15,000+ diamond if natural.
- A_D_E_P_T 3y ago
  This is really quite new. China and India, just over the past few years, have turned synthetic diamond production into a serious industry, and the fact that there are so many small producers is leading to a "race to the bottom" on pricing. A race we're now right in the middle of. Within just a few years, synthetic diamond might be nearly as cheap as synthetic ruby. (The raw materials are equally cheap, but making diamond is a more laborious and energy-intensive process, so it'll always be somewhat more expensive.)
- causi 3y ago
  What's the profit margin on a 0.6 gram chunk of fancy carbon being sold for three grand?

eppo999 3y ago

On Netflix there is a nice documentary about this: Nothing Lasts Forever

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Thomashuet 3y ago

I have an even cheaper solution: just don't buy a ring. It all depends on what your partner wants obviously. If it's important for your partner to get a diamond ring and you value your partnership more than the cost of a diamond, then buy a diamond. If your partner wants a "I'm married" sign (as my wife did), just buy a simple wedding ring without a stone. If it's not that important for her, don't buy a ring.

shiroiuma 3y ago
This of course is true and makes sense, but you could also say the same thing about eating dinner in a restaurant: you could save money by skipping a meal, or by getting a frozen meal at the supermarket. A restaurant meal at a decent restaurant isn't that expensive (though it is pretty bad in the US these days; other countries are much better). A ring doesn't have to be expensive: you can get a nice titanium ring for under $100. And unlike some other rings, it has some major benefits: 1) it's super-lightweight, so you can barely feel it (gold is heavy), 2) it's hypo-allergenic, in case you might have a sensitivity to anything in other rings, and best of all, 3) if you're stuck in an undersea oil rig that's flooding and one of the automatic flood doors is closing and about to trap you inside, you can stick your hand with the ring in the door and prevent it from closing, so you can escape.
- GTP 3y ago
  Number 3 seems a good idea for a 007 movie :D
  - mrec 3y ago
    I think GP was referring to that exact thing happening in The Abyss.
    - shiroiuma 3y ago
      I forgot to add the reason why there's a moral imperative to wearing a titanium ring instead of a diamond one: after saving yourself from drowning with the titanium ring, you can then descend to the ocean floor in an experimental diving suit, disarm a nuclear bomb dropped there by some nutcase that threatens a bunch of ocean-dwelling aliens, and impress them with your intended sacrifice (since your suit only has enough oxygen for a one-way trip) that they decide not to wipe out much of humanity with simultaneous tsunamis.

rsyring 3y ago

2006

dbrgn 3y ago

I, as a European, cannot fathom how anyone would spend a significant amount of money on an engagement ring! The engagement rings we got ourselves cost 18$ and were made from wood. After all, they only need to last a few months, or maybe 1-2 years, until the wedding. Regarding the wedding ring, I can understand slightly better how someone would put a bit more money into that, considering that you wear it for life. But there are so much better options than buying a shiny rock. Why not go to a goldsmith and pay 1000$ for a workshop where you forge your own rings? That will result in a lasting memory of a nice event, for a fraction of the cost, instead of throwing thousands of dollars out the window for a shiny rock that you simply buy at the store. Or maybe you don't even need gold? In my opinion, silver, titanium or maybe something like steel combined with carbon fibers looks better anyways.

davidhalter 3y ago
Same here. I still cherish my 5$ wooden wedding ring. There's such beautiful wooden jewelry out there.
fardinahsan 3y ago
Because "creating memories" can't be exchanged for social status.
throwaway287391 3y ago
> After all, [engagement rings] only need to last a few months, or maybe 1-2 years, until the wedding. I think this is the cultural distinction you're missing -- married American women typically wear both their engagement and wedding ring their entire lives, and the engagement ring is usually the more ornate/expensive one (which might be due to the De Beers marketing throughout the 20th century this article discusses).
- AndyJames 3y ago
  The thing is it's not the culture or tradition of the US. It's just a brilliant ad campaign that lasted way longer than it should.

uwagar 3y ago

women should refuse diamond ring as engagement ring.

janosdebugs 3y ago

My wife and I bought a titanium ring with a wood inlay for our wedding. Would buy again.

cyclecount 3y ago

>> it's actually crazy we figured out how to grow real diamonds that are cheaper and better quality than the real thing and so many people are still like, no thanks the suffering is what makes it special. https://twitter.com/missmayn/status/1612892354624786444 https://twitter.com/missmayn/status/1612892354624786444

anonu 3y ago

There is a bit of a cultural signaling to your future wife to say you are financially competent/stable that you were able to buy a diamond ring. Now you need to switch the narrative to say actually I didn't spend so we could buy an index fund instead. I don't buy the flawless argument in the article. I think people look for some flaws in diamonds. A perfect rock would look "fake". The big change since 2006 when the article was written is that there are manufactured diamonds now.

master-lincoln 3y ago
> There is a bit of a cultural signaling to your future wife to say you are financially competent/stable that you were able to buy a diamond ring In modern cultures I would assume the couple already knows each other and their financial situation before marrying. So why waste money on richness signaling especially if you are not rich?

bocytron 3y ago

Previous discussions: https://hn.algolia.com/?query=diamondssuck https://hn.algolia.com/?query=diamondssuck

TedHerman 3y ago

Some thoughts from a mineral collector. There is considerable variety in naturally occurring diamonds. Colors, such as yellow, green, brown, black and famously a few blue and pink ones. Plus many crystal forms (Cubic, Octahedral, Dodecahedral, Tetrahedral, Trapezohedral, Tetrahexahedral,Trisoctahedral, Hexoctahedral, and some triangular Macle forms). An appeal of natural diamonds to some mineral collectors is the interest their unique crystal forms. These are expensive and tiny: a niche that I don't have in my collection. However, I did purchase a large cluster of what I think consists Moissanite crystals, not transparent; it looks like some failed industrial experiment.

thih9 3y ago

Also applies to wine, audiophile grade gear, and similar kind of goods - most people can’t tell the difference. Then there’s designer brands, which openly sell products of inferior quality. And with success too. I guess diamonds are similar to both.

jliptzin 3y ago

If you can get people to stop buying diamonds you could turn religious people into atheists. So, by and large, it’s not happening.

makach 3y ago

Diamonds suck indeed. They are easily reproduced and are artificially kept at a high price by big business Gold on the other side, is impossible to reproduce and is a very rare metal that will have many fine uses. You can do anything to it and it won't lose its value. I will never understand why some women require worthless diamonds. It's a crystal, it reflects and will lose its value if broken.

hilbert42 3y ago
"I will never understand why some women require worthless diamonds." Marketing, it's a cleverly crafted fashion statement long-ingrained in culture by monopolistic cartel member De Beers. The artificially high prices maintained by the diamond cartel must end, diamonds are too valuable to industry for industrial purposes than to let these bastards run the show.

sambalbadjak 3y ago

lol, I forwarded this article to my girlfriend, and she immediately responded: absolutely not! I guess some things are not meant to be optimised. She mentioned that you can buy a lab-grown diamond for much cheaper, and keep the same shine as a "real" diamond.

fsflover 3y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38247835 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38247835

gadders 3y ago

You need to factor in the game theory implications: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2005.3152 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.200...

ot1138 3y ago

But my wife is really happy with her $250k diamond. Saved my ass on many occasions!

mfscholar 3y ago

Why not buy her a gold bar instead? They can be as expensive/ valuable as you like and she can see it as an investment. It can't be worn on a finger of course, but where I'm from, people only wear the engagement ring before their wedding.

thdespou 3y ago

Reading this while listening to "Diamonds Are a Girl's Best Friend"

bovermyer 3y ago

Orrrr you can do what my wife and I did: just get those silicone rings. They come in lots of styles, you can wear them while working out or diving or any other physical activity, and they're much cheaper than actual jewelry.

marssaxman 3y ago
My wife and I tried that, while we were living on a sailboat, but I was disappointed by the lack of durability; my silicone ring only lasted six months.
- bovermyer 3y ago
  Interesting. Mine has lasted for five years now.

TacticalCoder 3y ago

This is wrong: > 3. A diamond is an illiquid asset, not an "investment". Don't believe me? Try to sell a second-hand diamond ring on eBay or at a pawn shop. Do you really think you'll get anything close to what you paid for it? Yes you'll get close to what you paid for it if you buy it the same way jewelers buy it. There's an ultra liquid market for diamonds: a friend jeweler showed it to me. He needs a diamond to make a ring? He goes on a website where diamonds are sorted by their four Cs (clarity/cut/color/carat) and their price and all guaranteed legit. And he buys it at market price. Of course if you overpay 3x the price by buying the diamond as part of a complete ring, you're sorry out of luck. Now the diamond market may crash too, but that is another topic. If your wife/fiance really insists on having a diamond: find a reputable jeweler and tell him you want to pick the stone with him, on such a site. And that you're willing willing to pay for the ring and his craftmanship but that you don't want to pay the stone 3x the price for what is actually two clicks for him. Heck, you can even bring your own stone to the jeweler (I did it, with a family heirloom diamond). You can even bring a picture of a famous brand and say you want the same shape of ring: they're not supposed to do it but they'll gladly copy the famous ring (I didn't do that but I know someone who did). BTW while you're at it buy a diamond that comes with a certificate. And if you want to pay 1/5th of the price: then buy a lab-grown diamond instead of moissanite for 1/10th of the price. To me moissanite is a bit too shiny. While a lab-grown diamond or a "real" diamond are the exact same thing. See user glimshe 's comment in this thread.

hef19898 3y ago
Also, jewelery is a luxury, an indulgence ideally bought to feel good and enjoy. If you treat luxury goods as investment, unless your job is buying and selling luxury goods, you are already out of luck from the very start.
heresie-dabord 3y ago
> If your wife/fiance really insists on having a diamond: ... rethink whom you are marrying and maybe the practice of marriage itself.
xtiansimon 3y ago
> “…you can even bring your own stone to the jeweler…” I’m curious, how would you know the diamond you gave the jeweler was the same diamond they put into the ring, as a layman?

throwaway_13140 3y ago

The real question is, Josh are you still married? This was originally written in 2006.

beavis000 3y ago

Not to hijack the thread, but weddings are significantly suckier. The cost is several multiples more than a diamond (natural or lab), only lasts one night, and is typically a large source of stress. Just have a party at a restaurant and use the $50k-$100k saved for student debt or rent or kids school.

prmoustache 3y ago
Yeah I never understood people spending crazy amounts of money, especially when they could use that to much better use that would make greater the chances of the mariage to last long. It is not supposed to be the best day of your life. It would means all goes downhill from there which is the opposite of what you want your marriage/life partnership to be.

zzzcsgo 3y ago

Diamonds are a good tool.... Not so much a good jewelry

moogly 3y ago

My favorite quote by someone on a forum a decade or two ago: > Man-made diamonds are forged from the will and brilliance of man. > Millions of years of loving relationship have lead up this point and have been distilled into 2 carats of sparkling magic, > brought forth from the ether of the universe by man's desire to express his love. > > Or you could dig up some dirty rock from the ground, like an animal would do.

1letterunixname 3y ago

This person either doesn't get laid, has an atypical understanding partner, or no partner at all. While DeBeers and Madison Ave. crafted a tradition to artificially inflate the value of this specific gem, create a monopoly cartel around it, and established it as a material standard of love and "suitability" for marriage, it's been subsumed by culture as much as children demand Christmas such that the odds of escaping this manufactured foolishness are scant. For example, what % of women would date a man if they heard he was a Cornell grad vs. a self-employed electrician? The individual has a Hobson choice to either follow a convention, pretend to follow it, or ignore it altogether. Without being subject to these peer pressures, I would prefer to allocate to coin to investments and reducing debt, and instead carve a ring from a wax blank to be cast in a metal like platinum or silver. The non-salaried working man trying to enter marriage with the demands of a large wedding party and an expensive diamond ring bought on credit would be economically foot-gunning themselves. It still happens everyday and keeps the diamond business in business.

Justsignedup 3y ago

Me and my fiance read this some years back. I ended up getting her a massionite ring and she absolutely wows everyone with it. And it was less than a grand. Even people wealthier than me get impressed because the diamond industry is indeed a cartel with vastly over-priced costs. In any case. She's extremely happy. I'm happy. My wallet is happy. It's honestly the best decision.

gwbas1c 3y ago

One of the extremely frustrating things that I experienced when purchasing my wife's engagement was the pressure from my family to buy diamonds: When I was a teenager in the 1990s, and moissanite came out, I listened to my older cousin go off on how she would dump any man who tried to pass off a moissanite to her. Then my mother kept confusing moissanite with cubic zirconia, and kept telling me stories about cheap men who bought their fiancées rings that broke. I bought my wife a moissanite, but I was so afraid that she was just saying that she wanted a moissanite to merely humor me. What I did was give her matching moissanite earrings a month before I proposed to her. She loved the earrings, so I knew she'd love the ring.

ChrisArchitect 3y ago

Related discussion (probably why this was even posted, again): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38245762