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I'm curious if the increasing negativity in the more tech oriented population to Google will leak to the general population. As it stands right now, Google has

I'm curious if the increasing negativity in the more tech oriented population to Google will leak to the general population. As it stands right now, Google has a pretty bullet proof public rep. They are seen as the company with the fun doodles that makes free and helpful websites. I guess the prototype for this is late 90s Microsoft, but I feel that the MS backlash was fairly minor in the general population and mostly created by a very public antitrust case that fueled numerous and sustained headlines. It is bubbling over to the public (Jon Stewart made a casual joke about G+ a couple weeks ago), but I feel like the Google backlash will stay mostly in the community unless there are new developments.

ajross 15y ago
It's not the "more tech oriented community". The correlation is more specific than that. It's Apple users. As it happens, Apple nuts make up a disproportionate share of the population here, and at other locations in the broader "Web 2.0/Startup Community", so it's easy to make the mistake and try to extend that to all of the tech industry, but it's wrong. And the reason is clear: since 2008 Android has represented the biggest single threat to Apple's increasing dominance. Really try this some time (here or elsewhere): find a anti-Google rant, check the poster's history and see how long it takes to find out who designed the phone in their pocket. None of this speaks to the legitimacy of criticism aimed at Google, mind you. Some of it is deserved. But the focus on Google (to the exclusion of other players with more questionable history like, say, Facebook) is absolutely an effect of the reality distortion field.
- blinkingled 15y ago
  Bingo! This needed to be said - I've felt the exact same way for some time now. The poster history and being "in the Apple camp" are a dead give away.
- vibrunazo 15y ago
  I wouldn't even say it's Apple users. It seems to me that almost all the negativity towards Google comes from sensationalist tech bloggers. They'll raise the fear flag whenever they find an opportunity for more pageviews. Google just happen to be a good punch bag since they literally make the news with a significant new product/update every single week. Apple users just happen to be an important part of their target target audience. But looking at the big picture. Sensationalist tech bloggers' influence is really insignificant to the general population.
  - Karunamon 15y ago
    >They'll raise the fear flag whenever they find an opportunity for more pageviews. Or worse, (and some of the more level headed community here is guilty of this too), the "zOMG GOOGLE IS NOW EVIL" flag. If I had a nickel for every time some random blogger decided that somehow advertising in a slightly different way was an affront to truth, justice, and the American way....
  - backprojection 15y ago
    Being anti-google does indeed seem to be the hipster position at the moment. $5 says it'll soon be, 'I'm too cool even for Apple, I use Windows mobile'. Not that there's anything wrong with windows mobile, it's quite nice. I can see it having a bit of the perception of the phone your parents would carry. Though, and that'll feed perfectly into hipsterism.
- ChuckMcM 15y ago
  I could rant anti-google and I've got both a Nexus One and an iPad :-)
- ellyagg 15y ago
  But I'm sure the extensive criticism that Apple receives here is all clear-eyed, eh? According to the poll, the public loves Apple, but they are routinely pummeled on HN. I note that, just in casual reading, I can count 20+ user names who are Google employees. That's people who have actually commented and self-identified as Google employees, meaning that the actual number of voters is of course much higher. What effect do you think that might have on objectivity? As an aside, I'm disappointed that people continue to reward your insults with up votes. It's pretty well known that that's not how you're supposed to behave here.
  - ajross 15y ago
    I guess there's a lot of subjectivity at work. An Apple fan will no doubt see a lot more criticism than someone (and I'll admit I qualify) who is less pleased with the company. That said: surely you can't be arguing that it's somehow a bad thing or reflects poorly on Google that it's employees are active in our community, can you?
- dredmorbius 15y ago
  I can assure you it's not merely Apple users.
  - npsimons 15y ago
    I can assure you it's not merely Apple users. I'll second that; I've despised Apple from day one, especially back when there were much better reasons (no memory protection? no true multitasking? in the year 2000? what is this, a student project?). At least now they seem to be more technically competent, even if they are definitively evil. I don't really trust Google (hence why I don't use GMail), but I can tell you right now, I would turn down an interview with Apple, no second thoughts. If Google asked for an interview (again), I'd probably say yes, even though I'm not likely to accept an offer. Google has plenty of issues, but not nearly as many as Apple and I do think that a lot of the Google-hate is from Apple fanboys, but not all of it.
  - redwood 15y ago
    I can third that... Google's "Play", G+, annoying ads on youtube, inability to complete cool stuff like docs etc all frustrate
- rbarooah 15y ago
  In other words Android users don't criticize Google. edit: It is hardly a big reveal that this correlation exists. Presumably people's opinions have an influence on how they choose to spend their money and vice-versa. Singling out 'Apple Users' in this regard is just an ad hominem.
  - fpgeek 15y ago
    If you really think "Android users don't criticize Google", you haven't been paying attention. Here are some common criticisms off the top of my head: - "Why doesn't the Nexus S / Galaxy Nexus have a microSD slot?" - "Why hasn't Google enabled paid apps in my country?" - "Why isn't Chrome Beta/Google Music/Books/Currents/... available in my country?" - "Why isn't the Nexus One getting ICS?" - "Google Play is a stupid name" - "Why does the Chrome Beta require ICS?" - "Google should clamp down more on Android OEMs" [to prevent fragmentation] - "Android should have open development, not just open source" - "Google's design guidelines for the back button are wrong" - ...
    - rbarooah 15y ago
      Those are not criticisms of Google the company. They are minor feature gripes about products. This supports my point.
      - fpgeek 15y ago
        I don't really follow that. Perhaps the complaints about "Google Play" and the back button are minor gripes (though I have seen them woven into larger themes), but... The implied answer to any of the "Why" questions asked in anger (as they usually are) is "Google doesn't care about ______ users." (whether you fill in the blank with non-US, Nexus One, non-ICS, etc). Similarly, the implication behind the things Google/Android "should" be doing (but isn't) is that Google doesn't care about what they should (fragmentation and open source in my examples). Those are all criticisms of the company, not just the specific issue raised.
        15y ago
- pinaceae 15y ago
  or maybe, just maybe this points to the fact that the people who appreciate good design and stuff that just works use Apple products and see the latest changes by Google as unfavorable. i do. new layout? search clutter? play in my google browser bar? circle results in search? maps api pricing? etc etc etc. i loved the old google. really getting annoyed with the new one. it is becoming apparent that they are an advertising network above all else. but hey, if conspiracy theories about Apple make it easier for you, please continue.

ajross 15y ago

It's not the "more tech oriented community". The correlation is more specific than that. It's Apple users. As it happens, Apple nuts make up a disproportionate share of the population here, and at other locations in the broader "Web 2.0/Startup Community", so it's easy to make the mistake and try to extend that to all of the tech industry, but it's wrong. And the reason is clear: since 2008 Android has represented the biggest single threat to Apple's increasing dominance. Really try this some time (here or elsewhere): find a anti-Google rant, check the poster's history and see how long it takes to find out who designed the phone in their pocket. None of this speaks to the legitimacy of criticism aimed at Google, mind you. Some of it is deserved. But the focus on Google (to the exclusion of other players with more questionable history like, say, Facebook) is absolutely an effect of the reality distortion field.

blinkingled 15y ago
Bingo! This needed to be said - I've felt the exact same way for some time now. The poster history and being "in the Apple camp" are a dead give away.
vibrunazo 15y ago
I wouldn't even say it's Apple users. It seems to me that almost all the negativity towards Google comes from sensationalist tech bloggers. They'll raise the fear flag whenever they find an opportunity for more pageviews. Google just happen to be a good punch bag since they literally make the news with a significant new product/update every single week. Apple users just happen to be an important part of their target target audience. But looking at the big picture. Sensationalist tech bloggers' influence is really insignificant to the general population.
- Karunamon 15y ago
  >They'll raise the fear flag whenever they find an opportunity for more pageviews. Or worse, (and some of the more level headed community here is guilty of this too), the "zOMG GOOGLE IS NOW EVIL" flag. If I had a nickel for every time some random blogger decided that somehow advertising in a slightly different way was an affront to truth, justice, and the American way....
- backprojection 15y ago
  Being anti-google does indeed seem to be the hipster position at the moment. $5 says it'll soon be, 'I'm too cool even for Apple, I use Windows mobile'. Not that there's anything wrong with windows mobile, it's quite nice. I can see it having a bit of the perception of the phone your parents would carry. Though, and that'll feed perfectly into hipsterism.
ChuckMcM 15y ago
I could rant anti-google and I've got both a Nexus One and an iPad :-)
ellyagg 15y ago
But I'm sure the extensive criticism that Apple receives here is all clear-eyed, eh? According to the poll, the public loves Apple, but they are routinely pummeled on HN. I note that, just in casual reading, I can count 20+ user names who are Google employees. That's people who have actually commented and self-identified as Google employees, meaning that the actual number of voters is of course much higher. What effect do you think that might have on objectivity? As an aside, I'm disappointed that people continue to reward your insults with up votes. It's pretty well known that that's not how you're supposed to behave here.
- ajross 15y ago
  I guess there's a lot of subjectivity at work. An Apple fan will no doubt see a lot more criticism than someone (and I'll admit I qualify) who is less pleased with the company. That said: surely you can't be arguing that it's somehow a bad thing or reflects poorly on Google that it's employees are active in our community, can you?
dredmorbius 15y ago
I can assure you it's not merely Apple users.
- npsimons 15y ago
  I can assure you it's not merely Apple users. I'll second that; I've despised Apple from day one, especially back when there were much better reasons (no memory protection? no true multitasking? in the year 2000? what is this, a student project?). At least now they seem to be more technically competent, even if they are definitively evil. I don't really trust Google (hence why I don't use GMail), but I can tell you right now, I would turn down an interview with Apple, no second thoughts. If Google asked for an interview (again), I'd probably say yes, even though I'm not likely to accept an offer. Google has plenty of issues, but not nearly as many as Apple and I do think that a lot of the Google-hate is from Apple fanboys, but not all of it.
- redwood 15y ago
  I can third that... Google's "Play", G+, annoying ads on youtube, inability to complete cool stuff like docs etc all frustrate
rbarooah 15y ago
In other words Android users don't criticize Google. edit: It is hardly a big reveal that this correlation exists. Presumably people's opinions have an influence on how they choose to spend their money and vice-versa. Singling out 'Apple Users' in this regard is just an ad hominem.
- fpgeek 15y ago
  If you really think "Android users don't criticize Google", you haven't been paying attention. Here are some common criticisms off the top of my head: - "Why doesn't the Nexus S / Galaxy Nexus have a microSD slot?" - "Why hasn't Google enabled paid apps in my country?" - "Why isn't Chrome Beta/Google Music/Books/Currents/... available in my country?" - "Why isn't the Nexus One getting ICS?" - "Google Play is a stupid name" - "Why does the Chrome Beta require ICS?" - "Google should clamp down more on Android OEMs" [to prevent fragmentation] - "Android should have open development, not just open source" - "Google's design guidelines for the back button are wrong" - ...
  - rbarooah 15y ago
    Those are not criticisms of Google the company. They are minor feature gripes about products. This supports my point.
    - fpgeek 15y ago
      I don't really follow that. Perhaps the complaints about "Google Play" and the back button are minor gripes (though I have seen them woven into larger themes), but... The implied answer to any of the "Why" questions asked in anger (as they usually are) is "Google doesn't care about ______ users." (whether you fill in the blank with non-US, Nexus One, non-ICS, etc). Similarly, the implication behind the things Google/Android "should" be doing (but isn't) is that Google doesn't care about what they should (fragmentation and open source in my examples). Those are all criticisms of the company, not just the specific issue raised.
      - 15y ago
pinaceae 15y ago
or maybe, just maybe this points to the fact that the people who appreciate good design and stuff that just works use Apple products and see the latest changes by Google as unfavorable. i do. new layout? search clutter? play in my google browser bar? circle results in search? maps api pricing? etc etc etc. i loved the old google. really getting annoyed with the new one. it is becoming apparent that they are an advertising network above all else. but hey, if conspiracy theories about Apple make it easier for you, please continue.