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I am continuously amazed at how awesome valve is and what awesome products it makes. Also steam supporting linux single handedly advanced adoption of that os. A

I am continuously amazed at how awesome valve is and what awesome products it makes. Also steam supporting linux single handedly advanced adoption of that os. Apparently the best types of companies are those founded by deeply technical people, still owned and run by them, no venture capital. In an ideal world we would favour such companies over toxic ones.

charcircuit 3y ago
>Also steam supporting linux single handedly advanced adoption of that os. Android using Linux is what single handily advanced the adoption of Linux among consumers.
- wiseowise 3y ago
  Not as a desktop.
- redundantly 3y ago
  Saying Android is Linux is like saying macOS is BSD.
  - rstat1 3y ago
    No it isn't. Android is as much a Linux distro as any other.
    - eptcyka 3y ago
      Android is a Linux distribution unlike any other. They use a completely different framework for drivers for hardware, they have their own patches for binder and other things that see no use outside of Android and will never get upstreamed. They have their own libc which is not used in any other distro. Very little of the work that has been done to make Linux work better on Androids has benefited the rest of the Linux ecosystem. Even the WiFi/Bluetooth drivers, which is a massive shame.
      - charcircuit 3y ago
        >They use a completely different framework for drivers for hardware No, both use kernel modules or statically compiled code for the part of the driver that actually talk to the hardware. >they have their own patches for binder Binder is part of mainline Linux, but yes I guess technically there are some patches that are related to binder, but remember that Android works on a mainline kernel.
      - rstat1 3y ago
        Binder has been part of the mainline kernel for quite a while. Also drivers for things on Android are for the most part done by third party manufactures and so its up to those third parties to upstream them. No different than any other driver used on more generic PC or server HW. Also you realize that there's like 3 or 4 different libc projects for Linux distros to use right? Bionic isn't special in that regard.
    - cherryteastain 3y ago
      It's a Linux distro but not a GNU/Linux distro
  - Krssst 3y ago
    Android uses the Linux kernel and keeps up with upstream to some extent. macOS uses the XNU kernel. Though as a user that likes having control over the software, I recognize that not having GNU/Linux being number one is a bit of a waste. (though one weekend of fighting NVIDIA and wayland tamed that quite a bit. Somehow my DE does not load with the proprietary driver unless I also load nouveau for some strange reason).
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      Android uses the latest LTS kernel and works using a mainline kernel provided mainline supports the hardware you are on. >though one weekend of fighting NVIDIA and wayland Wayland is freedesktop software which is different than GNU.
    - Krssst 3y ago
      > though one weekend of fighting NVIDIA and wayland tamed that quite a bit Looking back on that, this was mostly self-inflicted (used Debian testing rather than stable, and upgraded from Bullseye to Bookworm then to testing rather than clean install). I like twinkering a bit so I don't mind the pain that much but this is absolutely not representative of what new users would experience: my comment was clearly wrong (cannot edit/remove unfortunately). This is not telling at all for regular stable distributions (Debian stable, Fedora). In general I had pretty good experiences with clean installations of those.
- fckthisguy 3y ago
  Adoption on desktop is 100% more related to Steam support, at least in the gaming segment. Anecdotally, among friends and colleagues, people are only staying with Windows for gaming support. People generally dislike Windows but are forced to stay their for gaming. As support for Linux improves, they'll be less willing to put up with Windows' BS.
  - shortrounddev2 3y ago
    I'm one of the rare people on HN who likes using windows as a software development platform
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
randyrand 3y ago
And they only take a 30% cut! Practically altruism.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  That’s messed up indeed.
  - sph 3y ago
    They should do like everybody else, take 30% cut and NOT improve Linux.
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      AND spy on people, steal their data, and force sell couple of broken games.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      no one else in the PC space charges 30%. GOG does but at least offers (or used to) an upfront payment in exchange for taking more share until it's paid back. Yeah, I think if they take that literal financial risk on my its worth giving them a larger share.
- mey 3y ago
  What is an acceptable fee structure for the service they provide?
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    I'd prefer a la carte TBH. if you just need a place to host your game, having a mod workshop, item marketplace, multiplayer servers, input management, etc. doesn't matter to you, then why pay for it? People who want that can negotiate it. For a base store hosting, 10-15% is probably fair. But to be real honest I think the pricing parity is what goes too far. You want to charge 30%? okay, I should have the ability to pass that to the customer. the game is $15 but if you go to Itch or GoG you can get it for $10. But that's against steam's TOS.
depr 3y ago
Without taking away from the great things they are also doing, I'm mostly amazed at how bad and laggy the Steam app is, and has been for years, on all 3 platforms I've used it on. (I'm sure there are loads of people who have never had any issues but to me that's like people saying there are no problems with Linux on the desktop because they don't have any problems.)
- gumballindie 3y ago
  It could be improved yes, but that’s an acceptable kind of issues. Steam’s important functionality works well and is reliable - package management for games. It doesnt spy on me, doesn't push crap, doesnt use dark patterns. We need more apps like steam tbh.
  - depr 3y ago
    I wouldn't say it works well. On some machines it takes ages to start up and will always say it's updating even though it isn't. The ingame browser that is used to view the store breaks often and thenI can't open it inside Steam at all. On Macos, the system menu completely stops working most of the time and I can't exit the app normally, I have to kill it instead. OK, the core functionality of downloading and running games works. But I think we can expect a little bit more from a billion dollar company.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    not acceptable when other stores did it. I guess that's my problem with the steam fanbase at times. Almost cult like how it upplayes the benefits and downplays the flaws.
shortrounddev2 3y ago
Personally I've been pretty disappointed with valve over the last 10-15 years because of the almost complete lack of output on their games and the way they abandon others (TF2). They'd rather squeeze more money out of steam than release new games
- account42 3y ago
  Considering how they turn the games they do maintain into casinos, maybe that's for the best.

charcircuit 3y ago

>Also steam supporting linux single handedly advanced adoption of that os. Android using Linux is what single handily advanced the adoption of Linux among consumers.

wiseowise 3y ago
Not as a desktop.
redundantly 3y ago
Saying Android is Linux is like saying macOS is BSD.
- rstat1 3y ago
  No it isn't. Android is as much a Linux distro as any other.
  - eptcyka 3y ago
    Android is a Linux distribution unlike any other. They use a completely different framework for drivers for hardware, they have their own patches for binder and other things that see no use outside of Android and will never get upstreamed. They have their own libc which is not used in any other distro. Very little of the work that has been done to make Linux work better on Androids has benefited the rest of the Linux ecosystem. Even the WiFi/Bluetooth drivers, which is a massive shame.
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      >They use a completely different framework for drivers for hardware No, both use kernel modules or statically compiled code for the part of the driver that actually talk to the hardware. >they have their own patches for binder Binder is part of mainline Linux, but yes I guess technically there are some patches that are related to binder, but remember that Android works on a mainline kernel.
    - rstat1 3y ago
      Binder has been part of the mainline kernel for quite a while. Also drivers for things on Android are for the most part done by third party manufactures and so its up to those third parties to upstream them. No different than any other driver used on more generic PC or server HW. Also you realize that there's like 3 or 4 different libc projects for Linux distros to use right? Bionic isn't special in that regard.
  - cherryteastain 3y ago
    It's a Linux distro but not a GNU/Linux distro
- Krssst 3y ago
  Android uses the Linux kernel and keeps up with upstream to some extent. macOS uses the XNU kernel. Though as a user that likes having control over the software, I recognize that not having GNU/Linux being number one is a bit of a waste. (though one weekend of fighting NVIDIA and wayland tamed that quite a bit. Somehow my DE does not load with the proprietary driver unless I also load nouveau for some strange reason).
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    Android uses the latest LTS kernel and works using a mainline kernel provided mainline supports the hardware you are on. >though one weekend of fighting NVIDIA and wayland Wayland is freedesktop software which is different than GNU.
  - Krssst 3y ago
    > though one weekend of fighting NVIDIA and wayland tamed that quite a bit Looking back on that, this was mostly self-inflicted (used Debian testing rather than stable, and upgraded from Bullseye to Bookworm then to testing rather than clean install). I like twinkering a bit so I don't mind the pain that much but this is absolutely not representative of what new users would experience: my comment was clearly wrong (cannot edit/remove unfortunately). This is not telling at all for regular stable distributions (Debian stable, Fedora). In general I had pretty good experiences with clean installations of those.
fckthisguy 3y ago
Adoption on desktop is 100% more related to Steam support, at least in the gaming segment. Anecdotally, among friends and colleagues, people are only staying with Windows for gaming support. People generally dislike Windows but are forced to stay their for gaming. As support for Linux improves, they'll be less willing to put up with Windows' BS.
- shortrounddev2 3y ago
  I'm one of the rare people on HN who likes using windows as a software development platform
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

randyrand 3y ago

And they only take a 30% cut! Practically altruism.

gumballindie 3y ago
That’s messed up indeed.
- sph 3y ago
  They should do like everybody else, take 30% cut and NOT improve Linux.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    AND spy on people, steal their data, and force sell couple of broken games.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    no one else in the PC space charges 30%. GOG does but at least offers (or used to) an upfront payment in exchange for taking more share until it's paid back. Yeah, I think if they take that literal financial risk on my its worth giving them a larger share.
mey 3y ago
What is an acceptable fee structure for the service they provide?
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  I'd prefer a la carte TBH. if you just need a place to host your game, having a mod workshop, item marketplace, multiplayer servers, input management, etc. doesn't matter to you, then why pay for it? People who want that can negotiate it. For a base store hosting, 10-15% is probably fair. But to be real honest I think the pricing parity is what goes too far. You want to charge 30%? okay, I should have the ability to pass that to the customer. the game is $15 but if you go to Itch or GoG you can get it for $10. But that's against steam's TOS.

depr 3y ago

Without taking away from the great things they are also doing, I'm mostly amazed at how bad and laggy the Steam app is, and has been for years, on all 3 platforms I've used it on. (I'm sure there are loads of people who have never had any issues but to me that's like people saying there are no problems with Linux on the desktop because they don't have any problems.)

gumballindie 3y ago
It could be improved yes, but that’s an acceptable kind of issues. Steam’s important functionality works well and is reliable - package management for games. It doesnt spy on me, doesn't push crap, doesnt use dark patterns. We need more apps like steam tbh.
- depr 3y ago
  I wouldn't say it works well. On some machines it takes ages to start up and will always say it's updating even though it isn't. The ingame browser that is used to view the store breaks often and thenI can't open it inside Steam at all. On Macos, the system menu completely stops working most of the time and I can't exit the app normally, I have to kill it instead. OK, the core functionality of downloading and running games works. But I think we can expect a little bit more from a billion dollar company.
- johnnyanmac 3y ago
  not acceptable when other stores did it. I guess that's my problem with the steam fanbase at times. Almost cult like how it upplayes the benefits and downplays the flaws.

shortrounddev2 3y ago

Personally I've been pretty disappointed with valve over the last 10-15 years because of the almost complete lack of output on their games and the way they abandon others (TF2). They'd rather squeeze more money out of steam than release new games

account42 3y ago
Considering how they turn the games they do maintain into casinos, maybe that's for the best.