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> you shouldn't even need to talk to them Bureaucracy in many countries is infamously intransigent. Even if technical processes at offices may slightly improve

> you shouldn't even need to talk to them Bureaucracy in many countries is infamously intransigent. Even if technical processes at offices may slightly improve, the behavior of clerks does not. Some ability to interact in the local language is often demanded no matter how perfectly you think you have prepared your documents. And whether you are in your own country or abroad, it’s very common that you’ll be told you that you are missing something and have to come back on another day and stand in the queue all over again. If you think that, instead of legislation that facilitates doing everything online, you can realistically make in-person visits pleasant across the EU, you’re dreaming. And I’ll join the other poster in questioning your firsthand familiarity with these matters. You appear to be in the USA and trying to apply your own political battle to a completely different context.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago
> And whether you are in your own country or abroad, it’s very common that you’ll be told you that you are missing something and have to come back on another day and stand in the queue all over again. This is every part of government, not just their offices. You go to a government website and input information that as far as you can tell is correct. The website gives you a generic error message and tells you to call some number. Now you get to wait on hold. When someone finally answers they tell you to mail them the form instead and wait a month for them to process it, or if you want it to be two weeks instead of a month then you need to build a time machine so you can go back in time and find a fax machine. Governments suck, it has nothing to do with whether or not you're interacting with them in person. > You appear to be in the USA and trying to apply your own political battle to a completely different context. This is not a thing the context changes. Centralized identity systems are a security vulnerability no matter where you are.
- OfSanguineFire 3y ago
  No, I think people in many EU countries would report a very satisfying experience with online forms from their state offices. It’s only the in-person visits that suck. The nightmare you describe of having to call a number and wait on hold may be something you have experienced in America, but it doesn’t sound familiar to me at all. Again, if are in a faraway country and you don’t actually know anything about the context of the current discussion, it would be wiser to refrain from pontificating.

AnthonyMouse 3y ago

> And whether you are in your own country or abroad, it’s very common that you’ll be told you that you are missing something and have to come back on another day and stand in the queue all over again. This is every part of government, not just their offices. You go to a government website and input information that as far as you can tell is correct. The website gives you a generic error message and tells you to call some number. Now you get to wait on hold. When someone finally answers they tell you to mail them the form instead and wait a month for them to process it, or if you want it to be two weeks instead of a month then you need to build a time machine so you can go back in time and find a fax machine. Governments suck, it has nothing to do with whether or not you're interacting with them in person. > You appear to be in the USA and trying to apply your own political battle to a completely different context. This is not a thing the context changes. Centralized identity systems are a security vulnerability no matter where you are.

OfSanguineFire 3y ago
No, I think people in many EU countries would report a very satisfying experience with online forms from their state offices. It’s only the in-person visits that suck. The nightmare you describe of having to call a number and wait on hold may be something you have experienced in America, but it doesn’t sound familiar to me at all. Again, if are in a faraway country and you don’t actually know anything about the context of the current discussion, it would be wiser to refrain from pontificating.