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The problem isn’t how to use lots of energy, but how to produce it. Before we started using coal as an energy source, wood was a popular source, but that was f

The problem isn’t how to use lots of energy, but how to produce it. Before we started using coal as an energy source, wood was a popular source, but that was far from sustainable. See for example the graph in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forestry_in_the_United_Kingdom#Background https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forestry_in_the_United_Kingdom... If we had to start from that point again, there still would be lots of coal, but mostly not in places that are as easily accessible as what was there in the 1800s. If you have to manually dig a few hundred meters down to even reach coal, and (likely) wouldn’t even know where to dig, would you even consider starting digging? Oil and gas similarly would be problematic. There’s very little at or near the surface left. So, likely, the jump would have to be from wood to wind, solar or nuclear. That has been shown to be possible for wind (https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/10/wind-powered-factories-history-and-future-of-industrial-windmills https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2009/10/wind-powered-facto...), but it will have to be different from what happened in the Industrial Revolution.

Turing_Machine 3y ago
> If you have to manually dig a few hundred meters down to even reach coal You don't, though. https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/coal/how-much-coal-is-left.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/coal/how-much-coal-is-le... 53% of the recoverable coal reserves in the United States can be recovered with surface mining.
- ceejayoz 3y ago
  "Surface mining" involves quite a bit of industrial-scale digging. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine goes down 1,640 feet from the surface and looks like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Banneraktion_von_JunepA_im_Tagebau_Hambach%2C_2017.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Bannerak....
  - Turing_Machine 3y ago
    As I noted in the other post, the Big Hole in South Africa was dug to a depth of 240 meters by hand. Coal mines of that depth nothing special, even with 19th Century steam technology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining "By 1856, the average depth in the Borinage was 361 meters (1,184 ft), and in 1866, 437 meters (1,434 ft) and some pits had reached down 700 to 900 meters (2,300 to 3,000 ft); one was 1,065 meters (3,494 ft) deep, probably the deepest coal mine in Europe at this time."
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      "thanks to the good pumping system" (guess what powers that) and "by the late 19th century the seams were becoming exhausted" indicate the practical limitations faced by that.
      - Turing_Machine 3y ago
        > "thanks to the good pumping system" (guess what powers that) In the 19th Century? Steam engines that burn part of the extracted coal. What else? > by the late 19th century the seams were becoming exhausted Those particular seams, maybe. They're not the only seams, dude. I think we're done here.

Turing_Machine 3y ago

> If you have to manually dig a few hundred meters down to even reach coal You don't, though. https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/coal/how-much-coal-is-left.php https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/coal/how-much-coal-is-le... 53% of the recoverable coal reserves in the United States can be recovered with surface mining.

ceejayoz 3y ago
"Surface mining" involves quite a bit of industrial-scale digging. For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hambach_surface_mine goes down 1,640 feet from the surface and looks like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Banneraktion_von_JunepA_im_Tagebau_Hambach%2C_2017.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Bannerak....
- Turing_Machine 3y ago
  As I noted in the other post, the Big Hole in South Africa was dug to a depth of 240 meters by hand. Coal mines of that depth nothing special, even with 19th Century steam technology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining "By 1856, the average depth in the Borinage was 361 meters (1,184 ft), and in 1866, 437 meters (1,434 ft) and some pits had reached down 700 to 900 meters (2,300 to 3,000 ft); one was 1,065 meters (3,494 ft) deep, probably the deepest coal mine in Europe at this time."
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    "thanks to the good pumping system" (guess what powers that) and "by the late 19th century the seams were becoming exhausted" indicate the practical limitations faced by that.
    - Turing_Machine 3y ago
      > "thanks to the good pumping system" (guess what powers that) In the 19th Century? Steam engines that burn part of the extracted coal. What else? > by the late 19th century the seams were becoming exhausted Those particular seams, maybe. They're not the only seams, dude. I think we're done here.