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Sure, but if you've never used CUDA or any other GPU framework, how many lines of documentation do you need to read, and how many lines of code are you likely t

Sure, but if you've never used CUDA or any other GPU framework, how many lines of documentation do you need to read, and how many lines of code are you likely to write and rewrite and delete before you end up with those <100 lines of working code?

danielmarkbruce 3y ago
They have nice getting started guides. Try it and see. It's... really pretty simple. There is a reason they've built a trillion $$ company - they've done a great job.
- z2h-a6n 3y ago
  Ok, I tried it (for as long as my limited free time and interest in CUDA allows). The closest I came to a getting started guide is this [0], which by my (perhaps naive count) is 25561 lines of documentation, and I would probably need to learn more C++ to understand it in detail. I'm sure CUDA is great, and if I had more free time and/or better reasons to improve the performance of my code it would probably be great for me. My point was mainly that a few lines of code which may be trivial for one person to write may not be for someone else with different experience. Depending on what the code is being used for even a vast increase in performance may not be worth the extra time it takes to implement it. [0] https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-c-programming-guide/index.html https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-c-programming-guide/index....
  - danielmarkbruce 3y ago
    https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/even-easier-introduction-cuda/ https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/even-easier-introduction-c...
- jprete 3y ago
  I haven’t seen it but I can believe it - parallel programming of any variety is hard, and to be successful as a vendor of such a system would require uncommonly good API design to get the kind of traction that CUDA has gotten.
Kamq 3y ago
> Sure, but if you've never used CUDA or any other GPU framework, how many lines of documentation do you need to read, and how many lines of code are you likely to write and rewrite and delete before you end up with those <100 lines of working code? If you're already familiar with one of the languages that the nvidia compiler supports? Not that many. For people familiar with C or C++, it's a couple extra attributes, and a slightly different syntax for launching kernels vs a regular function call. I'm admittedly not experienced with Fortran, which is the other language they support, so I can't speak to that. There's c-style memory allocation functions, which might be annoying to C++ devs, but it's nothing that would confuse them. Edit: There's also a couple weird magic globals you have access to in a kernel (blockIdx, blockDim, threadIdx), but those are generally covered in the intros.
- wiz21c 3y ago
  My experience is different. I had to code various instances of "parallel reduction" and "prefix sum" and it's not easy to get into it (took me a day or two). Moreover, coming from an age where 640KB of RAM where considered quite enough, truly realizing the power of the GPU was not easy because my tasks are not quite parallel and not quite thread coherent (I grant you that doing naturally parallel stuff is dead simple). It took me a while and a lot of nvidia-nsight to max out the GPU... Moreover, I was a bit slow to actually understand how powerful a GPU is (for example, my GPU gave poor performances unless I gave it a problem big enough, so I was (wrongly) disappointed when testing toy problems) But once that challenge is overcome, GPU truly rocks. Finally debugging complex shaders (I do some specific case of computational fluid dynamics where equations are not that easy, full of "if/then" edge cases, etc) is not fun at all, tooling is sorely missed (unless I've missed something)
  - Kamq 3y ago
    This is fair, and if you've got the time and inclination, I'd love to hear about your experience and the tricks you ended up pulling. There are definitely advanced areas of CUDA, and you can go deeper on nearly anything. But we are in a comment chain spawned by: > CUDA is fairly straightforward for many tasks and in many cases there is an easy 100x improvement in processing speed just sitting there to be had with <100 lines of code. And a follow up comment about how easy it would be to write that "<100 lines of code", so I feel like we're definitely talking about the easy case of naturally parallel calculations, and sticking to that as an intro seems fair to me.

danielmarkbruce 3y ago

They have nice getting started guides. Try it and see. It's... really pretty simple. There is a reason they've built a trillion $$ company - they've done a great job.

z2h-a6n 3y ago
Ok, I tried it (for as long as my limited free time and interest in CUDA allows). The closest I came to a getting started guide is this [0], which by my (perhaps naive count) is 25561 lines of documentation, and I would probably need to learn more C++ to understand it in detail. I'm sure CUDA is great, and if I had more free time and/or better reasons to improve the performance of my code it would probably be great for me. My point was mainly that a few lines of code which may be trivial for one person to write may not be for someone else with different experience. Depending on what the code is being used for even a vast increase in performance may not be worth the extra time it takes to implement it. [0] https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-c-programming-guide/index.html https://docs.nvidia.com/cuda/cuda-c-programming-guide/index....
- danielmarkbruce 3y ago
  https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/even-easier-introduction-cuda/ https://developer.nvidia.com/blog/even-easier-introduction-c...
jprete 3y ago
I haven’t seen it but I can believe it - parallel programming of any variety is hard, and to be successful as a vendor of such a system would require uncommonly good API design to get the kind of traction that CUDA has gotten.

Kamq 3y ago

> Sure, but if you've never used CUDA or any other GPU framework, how many lines of documentation do you need to read, and how many lines of code are you likely to write and rewrite and delete before you end up with those <100 lines of working code? If you're already familiar with one of the languages that the nvidia compiler supports? Not that many. For people familiar with C or C++, it's a couple extra attributes, and a slightly different syntax for launching kernels vs a regular function call. I'm admittedly not experienced with Fortran, which is the other language they support, so I can't speak to that. There's c-style memory allocation functions, which might be annoying to C++ devs, but it's nothing that would confuse them. Edit: There's also a couple weird magic globals you have access to in a kernel (blockIdx, blockDim, threadIdx), but those are generally covered in the intros.

wiz21c 3y ago
My experience is different. I had to code various instances of "parallel reduction" and "prefix sum" and it's not easy to get into it (took me a day or two). Moreover, coming from an age where 640KB of RAM where considered quite enough, truly realizing the power of the GPU was not easy because my tasks are not quite parallel and not quite thread coherent (I grant you that doing naturally parallel stuff is dead simple). It took me a while and a lot of nvidia-nsight to max out the GPU... Moreover, I was a bit slow to actually understand how powerful a GPU is (for example, my GPU gave poor performances unless I gave it a problem big enough, so I was (wrongly) disappointed when testing toy problems) But once that challenge is overcome, GPU truly rocks. Finally debugging complex shaders (I do some specific case of computational fluid dynamics where equations are not that easy, full of "if/then" edge cases, etc) is not fun at all, tooling is sorely missed (unless I've missed something)
- Kamq 3y ago
  This is fair, and if you've got the time and inclination, I'd love to hear about your experience and the tricks you ended up pulling. There are definitely advanced areas of CUDA, and you can go deeper on nearly anything. But we are in a comment chain spawned by: > CUDA is fairly straightforward for many tasks and in many cases there is an easy 100x improvement in processing speed just sitting there to be had with <100 lines of code. And a follow up comment about how easy it would be to write that "<100 lines of code", so I feel like we're definitely talking about the easy case of naturally parallel calculations, and sticking to that as an intro seems fair to me.