> What I am trying to say is that since there is no guarantee that the next president will be good it would be wise never to accept intrusive spying. No I don't

> What I am trying to say is that since there is no guarantee that the next president will be good it would be wise never to accept intrusive spying. No I don't think spy agencies should wiretap the phones of their allies leaders, if they are allies. That would be dishonorable and shameful Criminals are not usually ashamed, I think the part you don't get is that clandestine arms of spy agencies are essentially state sponsored criminal agencies. Like APT hackers for example, every country hacks other countries (major ones anyways), and of course that is criminal and dishonorable but it is the norm and you have consented to it by your votes. > Yeah which I think reflects really unfavorably on the politicians in both the EU and the US. In my experience it is also the people. Most regular people don't care or it is at least not a big deal so long as their economy and security is improving. Politicians are merely representing the people. > Diplomacy can still be based on threats of violence, so that doesn't really impress me very much Yes, but people don't bleed or die when threatened, so point still stands. > People in Ukraine, Palestine, Sudan, Yemen and many more, might not agree with that. Furthermore Europe is being overrun by refuges created by the turmoil which also seem to point to the fact that things aren't that stable Yes, but speaking of Ukraine, who is the main military support preventing a russian invasion? And do you recall trump being impeached over not helping Ukraine? Did the US owe them that? Who drew the maps in palestine? Brits! Who left sudan in shambles mixing christians and muslims in one country? That's right.. brits. The world is a complex place, my point is not to blame europe or morally justify the CIA. The point is history, context and intentions are plenty and the norm of spying and world relations now has resulted in peace, improvement of poverty by an insane margin and much less wars and death. Despite nukes being a thing, they so far have only been used once! That's not an accident. Wars were very common and frequent. Maybe things can improve but only if we don't forget history. Europe is being overrun because of immigration policy, similar to the US. > You could also argue that during the USSR all the countries in that sphere where living in peace, others would say that they where living in fear of the secret police. I would say in relative peace but with little liberty and quality of life. Stalin and Mak were arguably on the same murderous level as hitler and the japanese emperor.