3 ms·

Didn't say that! Just that my past experience with 3rd party repair has been poor

by emmet 3y ago

sigmar 3y ago
Wasn't this partly by Apple's own making? Apple shreds devices to prevent people from salvaging parts for repairs[1], even phones that were usable[2]. and hasn't sold genuine components until very recently. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphones-macbooks https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphon... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-geep-iphone-recycle-shred/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-g...
- jwells89 3y ago
  Use of knockoff parts will occur no matter what Apple does because those parts are always going to be cheaper. That said, I think maybe the solution may be closer to something like allowing fake parts to function when placed in iPhones, with a couple of caveats: - A prominent top level section in Settings appears listing all non-genuine parts - When the phone has been factory reset, an alert appears at the bottom of the “welcome” screen and can be tapped to view the same list as above, so any prospective buyers of the device know exactly what they’re buying (and hopefully, can negotiate a better price as a result) This addresses the cases of both dishonest shops and dishonest sellers trying to pass off the used devices they’re selling as fully genuine. As for parts in used phones, I think those should remain device-locked until the user has explicitly unlocked them with a process that requires a second confirmation from the user after a week with a code sent by snail mail so thieves can’t coerce victims into part unlocking.
  - mindslight 3y ago
    The auto repair industry has been getting along just fine with aftermarket parts in the mix. As a customer you have a choice, and need to be aware that the choice exists to competently engage with the market. Being slightly informed about the high level aspects of an industry you're interacting with is just part of being an adult. If you don't want to have a frank conversation with a repair shop about which aftermarket parts are adequate and which are less than ideal, then you can always overpay for the whole job at a dealership to avoid breaking the illusion. From what I understand, getting to this point has been a long fought battle of pushing manufacturers to open up parts availability and basic documentation (which continues to this day with Automotive Right to Repair and whatnot), Magnuson-Moss on the legal front, etc. Apple is at the early stages of its industry, and due to the power of digital restrictions technology has delusions of completely shutting out the third party ecosystem. But in a free society there's only one way for this topic to evolve, and so the authoritarian arguments about the guarantees of centralized control aren't particularly compelling.
    - jwells89 3y ago
      The question is, how do we go about making sure that the general public as a whole is aware of the choice? For phones it seems like more of an uphill battle because people generally don’t think a whole lot about the quality of the parts going into their electronics repairs and the quality of the repair work itself until they’ve had some kind of disaster (phone catching on fire or something), whereas it’s more of a consideration for cars (perhaps due to the price difference or obvious mechanical nature of cars). At the very least though, I do think that buyers of used phones deserve to know what kind of parts were used in repairs. On cars this can be verified by looking up the car’s service records and taking it to a trusted mechanic prior to purchase but it’s not so simple with phones, which is where I think it could be useful for the OS to indicate use of aftermarket parts.
    - theshrike79 3y ago
      The scale of operation you need to steal and sell cars for parts or sell stolen cars is in a different order of magnitude in difficulty than doing the same for phones. We are at a stage where the only ones stealing Apple devices are the ones too stupid to know they’re next to impossible to resell and the ones that are really good and know exactly what they’re doing.
      - mindslight 3y ago
        Discouraging theft by getting rid of individual ownership seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
        theshrike79 3y ago
        We have a different view of "individual ownership". You probably see smartphones like computers, but I think they're more like game consoles. I don't complain to Microsoft because I can't install Arch or sideload games on my Xbox. I'm perfectly fine not being able to install random applications on my phone if in exchange it becomes a harder target for malware and unappealing to thieves.
  - NemoNobody 3y ago
    I haven't mailed a letter as an adult - I opened summons for jury duty 6 months after I was supposed to report. Snail mail isn't an effective means of communication in 2023.

Didn't say that! Just that my past experience with 3rd party repair has been poor

by emmet 3y ago

Didn't say that! Just that my past experience with 3rd party repair has been poor

Wasn't this partly by Apple's own making? Apple shreds devices to prevent people from salvaging parts for repairs[1], even phones that were usable[2]. and hasn't sold genuine components until very recently. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphones-macbooks https://www.vice.com/en/article/yp73jw/apple-recycling-iphon... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-geep-iphone-recycle-shred/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/07/apple-g...

jwells89 3y ago
Use of knockoff parts will occur no matter what Apple does because those parts are always going to be cheaper. That said, I think maybe the solution may be closer to something like allowing fake parts to function when placed in iPhones, with a couple of caveats: - A prominent top level section in Settings appears listing all non-genuine parts - When the phone has been factory reset, an alert appears at the bottom of the “welcome” screen and can be tapped to view the same list as above, so any prospective buyers of the device know exactly what they’re buying (and hopefully, can negotiate a better price as a result) This addresses the cases of both dishonest shops and dishonest sellers trying to pass off the used devices they’re selling as fully genuine. As for parts in used phones, I think those should remain device-locked until the user has explicitly unlocked them with a process that requires a second confirmation from the user after a week with a code sent by snail mail so thieves can’t coerce victims into part unlocking.
- mindslight 3y ago
  The auto repair industry has been getting along just fine with aftermarket parts in the mix. As a customer you have a choice, and need to be aware that the choice exists to competently engage with the market. Being slightly informed about the high level aspects of an industry you're interacting with is just part of being an adult. If you don't want to have a frank conversation with a repair shop about which aftermarket parts are adequate and which are less than ideal, then you can always overpay for the whole job at a dealership to avoid breaking the illusion. From what I understand, getting to this point has been a long fought battle of pushing manufacturers to open up parts availability and basic documentation (which continues to this day with Automotive Right to Repair and whatnot), Magnuson-Moss on the legal front, etc. Apple is at the early stages of its industry, and due to the power of digital restrictions technology has delusions of completely shutting out the third party ecosystem. But in a free society there's only one way for this topic to evolve, and so the authoritarian arguments about the guarantees of centralized control aren't particularly compelling.
  - jwells89 3y ago
    The question is, how do we go about making sure that the general public as a whole is aware of the choice? For phones it seems like more of an uphill battle because people generally don’t think a whole lot about the quality of the parts going into their electronics repairs and the quality of the repair work itself until they’ve had some kind of disaster (phone catching on fire or something), whereas it’s more of a consideration for cars (perhaps due to the price difference or obvious mechanical nature of cars). At the very least though, I do think that buyers of used phones deserve to know what kind of parts were used in repairs. On cars this can be verified by looking up the car’s service records and taking it to a trusted mechanic prior to purchase but it’s not so simple with phones, which is where I think it could be useful for the OS to indicate use of aftermarket parts.
  - theshrike79 3y ago
    The scale of operation you need to steal and sell cars for parts or sell stolen cars is in a different order of magnitude in difficulty than doing the same for phones. We are at a stage where the only ones stealing Apple devices are the ones too stupid to know they’re next to impossible to resell and the ones that are really good and know exactly what they’re doing.
    - mindslight 3y ago
      Discouraging theft by getting rid of individual ownership seems like throwing the baby out with the bath water.
      - theshrike79 3y ago
        We have a different view of "individual ownership". You probably see smartphones like computers, but I think they're more like game consoles. I don't complain to Microsoft because I can't install Arch or sideload games on my Xbox. I'm perfectly fine not being able to install random applications on my phone if in exchange it becomes a harder target for malware and unappealing to thieves.
- NemoNobody 3y ago
  I haven't mailed a letter as an adult - I opened summons for jury duty 6 months after I was supposed to report. Snail mail isn't an effective means of communication in 2023.