3 ms·

I only said Singapore. I didn't mention Japan or China. In Japan, China and the US drug use is "illegal" not illegal. Note the quotation marks. In Singapore, d

I only said Singapore. I didn't mention Japan or China. In Japan, China and the US drug use is "illegal" not illegal. Note the quotation marks. In Singapore, drug use is illegal, not "illegal." Note, again, the quotation marks.

vkou 3y ago
Look, if you want to turn the United States into a utopia like Singapore, I'm all for it, but it's going to take a bit more than just making drugs illegal. Perhaps, we could start with nationalizing ~80% of the country's housing stock, requiring permits for which neighbourhood you are allowed to live in, having ethnic quotas for each region to enforce multiculturalism and harmony and common prosperity... Stable housing, and a stable, harmonous society, with many of your pressing concerns back-stopped by a benevolent autocracy are probably the reason Singapore has low rates of drug use. It's weird how the US right salivates over a very small, bloody subset of Singapore's social policies... While turning its nose at the ones that actually make it a successful state. It's almost like the cruelty, not the outcomes, are the point...
arcticbull 3y ago
And drugs are available all over Singapore, what's your point? Here's another article. Just google for it, there's a lot of content. [1, 2] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-singapore-drugs-idUSSIN13500420071210 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-singapore-drugs-idUSSIN13... [2] https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/drug-abuse-starts-young-study-2163081 https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/drug-abuse-starts-youn...
- corethree 3y ago
  BS your information is just looking at relative change annually. Singapore's drug policies have plateaued. It's been in effect for decades you can't expect a drug policy that's been in place for decades have continues upward trends of lower and lower drug use, they will hit a limit. Any change you see now is just noise as they're basically at the peak of the amplitude for maximal change. And that's what you're basically googling. You need to look at relative illicit drug use by population percentage by country: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/drug-use-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/drug-use-... Also think critically. You will be killed if you attempt to sell drugs there. Does it make sense that the policy is not effective? What the hell is going on? Don't be just a blind data scientist trying to scaffold the data to fit your view point. If the data doesn't fit the common sense then perhaps you're unconsciously manipulating the data to fit your view. Also one of your articles shows 0.7% of youths in Singapore have used drugs in the past year. Is that suppose to support your argument? Look up the amount of youths that use drugs in the US. I think the reported number is like 40%. Actual number is likely 70%.
  - arcticbull 3y ago
    So what I'm hearing is the executions haven't stopped drug use. > Also think critically. You will be killed if you attempt to sell drugs there. Does it make sense that the policy is not effective? What the hell is going on? Finally, we're on the same page.
    - corethree 3y ago
      >So what I'm hearing is the executions haven't stopped drug use. Did you not look at the data I sent you? Singapore has the lowest drug use among almost all countries. Not just a little low, but massively lower. The only countries better off then Singapore tend to be countries where the citizens can't afford drugs. What you heard is wrong. And the google results you sent me is cherry-picked data in service of the articles agenda. Did drug usage increase in Singapore in the last year? Is that a 0.1% increase to 0.7% from the year before while the US sits at 40% usage rate? Come on bro. >Finally, we're on the same page. No we're not on the same page at all. Or at least you're just not admitting it.
      - arcticbull 3y ago
        Singapore is an authoritarian city-state with full control over its borders, and also a very unique society. Many other countries have similarly draconian drug laws, up to and including execution, but do not have the same results. So that alone certainly isn't it. Malaysia and Indonesia for instance. China ranks first in the world for number of executions related to drug trafficking. List here. [1] They also have full control over their border because it's a tiny island city-state, and their government leans heavily authoritarian. With the illegal gum and the caning. They also have strong social cohesion and lots of government support and social programs for individuals. What I would say is: 1. Given other countries have similar drug laws and significantly more drug use than Singapore, this is likely correlation not causation. 2. The social programs in Singapore and the strong social cohesion are likely far more responsible for lower drug use. 3. Given the choice to lower drug harm by liberalizing like Portugal or cracking down like Singapore, I would suggest that the former is far more in line with canonical Western values and maximizes individual liberty -- and should be applied even if it leads to slightly worse outcomes overall because there is never a perfect solution. I would caution you also that there's a long history of unsuccessfully attempting to replicate the 'Singapore model.' Most famously in China after Deng Xiaoping visited in the 70s. > The only countries better off then Singapore tend to be countries where the citizens can't afford drugs. Citation very needed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_tr...

vkou 3y ago

Look, if you want to turn the United States into a utopia like Singapore, I'm all for it, but it's going to take a bit more than just making drugs illegal. Perhaps, we could start with nationalizing ~80% of the country's housing stock, requiring permits for which neighbourhood you are allowed to live in, having ethnic quotas for each region to enforce multiculturalism and harmony and common prosperity... Stable housing, and a stable, harmonous society, with many of your pressing concerns back-stopped by a benevolent autocracy are probably the reason Singapore has low rates of drug use. It's weird how the US right salivates over a very small, bloody subset of Singapore's social policies... While turning its nose at the ones that actually make it a successful state. It's almost like the cruelty, not the outcomes, are the point...

arcticbull 3y ago

And drugs are available all over Singapore, what's your point? Here's another article. Just google for it, there's a lot of content. [1, 2] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-singapore-drugs-idUSSIN13500420071210 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-singapore-drugs-idUSSIN13... [2] https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/drug-abuse-starts-young-study-2163081 https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/drug-abuse-starts-youn...

corethree 3y ago
BS your information is just looking at relative change annually. Singapore's drug policies have plateaued. It's been in effect for decades you can't expect a drug policy that's been in place for decades have continues upward trends of lower and lower drug use, they will hit a limit. Any change you see now is just noise as they're basically at the peak of the amplitude for maximal change. And that's what you're basically googling. You need to look at relative illicit drug use by population percentage by country: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/drug-use-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/drug-use-... Also think critically. You will be killed if you attempt to sell drugs there. Does it make sense that the policy is not effective? What the hell is going on? Don't be just a blind data scientist trying to scaffold the data to fit your view point. If the data doesn't fit the common sense then perhaps you're unconsciously manipulating the data to fit your view. Also one of your articles shows 0.7% of youths in Singapore have used drugs in the past year. Is that suppose to support your argument? Look up the amount of youths that use drugs in the US. I think the reported number is like 40%. Actual number is likely 70%.
- arcticbull 3y ago
  So what I'm hearing is the executions haven't stopped drug use. > Also think critically. You will be killed if you attempt to sell drugs there. Does it make sense that the policy is not effective? What the hell is going on? Finally, we're on the same page.
  - corethree 3y ago
    >So what I'm hearing is the executions haven't stopped drug use. Did you not look at the data I sent you? Singapore has the lowest drug use among almost all countries. Not just a little low, but massively lower. The only countries better off then Singapore tend to be countries where the citizens can't afford drugs. What you heard is wrong. And the google results you sent me is cherry-picked data in service of the articles agenda. Did drug usage increase in Singapore in the last year? Is that a 0.1% increase to 0.7% from the year before while the US sits at 40% usage rate? Come on bro. >Finally, we're on the same page. No we're not on the same page at all. Or at least you're just not admitting it.
    - arcticbull 3y ago
      Singapore is an authoritarian city-state with full control over its borders, and also a very unique society. Many other countries have similarly draconian drug laws, up to and including execution, but do not have the same results. So that alone certainly isn't it. Malaysia and Indonesia for instance. China ranks first in the world for number of executions related to drug trafficking. List here. [1] They also have full control over their border because it's a tiny island city-state, and their government leans heavily authoritarian. With the illegal gum and the caning. They also have strong social cohesion and lots of government support and social programs for individuals. What I would say is: 1. Given other countries have similar drug laws and significantly more drug use than Singapore, this is likely correlation not causation. 2. The social programs in Singapore and the strong social cohesion are likely far more responsible for lower drug use. 3. Given the choice to lower drug harm by liberalizing like Portugal or cracking down like Singapore, I would suggest that the former is far more in line with canonical Western values and maximizes individual liberty -- and should be applied even if it leads to slightly worse outcomes overall because there is never a perfect solution. I would caution you also that there's a long history of unsuccessfully attempting to replicate the 'Singapore model.' Most famously in China after Deng Xiaoping visited in the 70s. > The only countries better off then Singapore tend to be countries where the citizens can't afford drugs. Citation very needed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_trafficking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_for_drug_tr...