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https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 I was shocked to learn that last year about the level of detail the

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 I was shocked to learn that last year about the level of detail they had. 1. All your mortgage, credit inquiries and bank account names 2. All your previous addesses and perevious employers 3. Your MONTHLY salary and combined comp per yer going back to 20XX when I came to the US. 4. Dates of employment per employer, bonus, overtime, RSU comp Does Experian and Transunion have that too, and can we block that as well?

fnordpiglet 3y ago
Yes, and no. I would note that they are definitely not alone and are much better scrutinized than the other data vendors you’ve never heard of that have much more detailed and person data about you. The credit agencies however offer you a real and valuable service. Without credit history it’s impossible to get credit. It’s also harder to get jobs and to rent. So while it’s creepy, at the very least you gain some demonstrable advantage and benefit. The data brokers and vendors however collect without your permission or knowledge, compile much deeper profiles of you as a human being and what you do and enjoy, along with these other details, and sell it for a profit you never get a share of. Perhaps one day we will have a functioning legislative branch and from it will come a real privacy bill. I’m hopeful it’ll be better informed than the EU ones by taking lessons learned. But I hope for a lot of stuff, like world peace and cures for cancer.
- rileymat2 3y ago
  “The credit agencies however offer you a real and valuable service. Without credit history it’s impossible to get credit.” I think I generally agree that this is a reasonable service, however the main reason you can’t get credit without a credit history is these services exist that can provide credit history to lenders. It is bizarre to think that loans would not exist without these services.
  - judge2020 3y ago
    Loans did exist before credit, but it was almost always loans from friends/family or by providing a large down payment to the bank you wanted a loan from. You needed to be a known and upstanding member of the community to get a loan for anything substantial. And technically, you can get many loans today without a credit score. For example, there are bank statement mortgage loans, but they have caveats like: - you will go through manual underwriting and will likely need to show records of payment history on any existing debts, including utilities, insurance, rent, etc - They will likely need the contact information for each one of your previous debts to verify it manually - When they run a quote, you will typically be considered at the lowest credit score possible for that program - typically 620 for a conventional loan or 500 for FHA. This means you'll be getting the worst rate possible - You'll likely need a 20% down payment, depending on if any of the PMI automated underwriting systems even give you a quote with such a low "fake" credit score. The lender might ask for more of a down payment depending on their own risk assessment. - The lender (or whoever buys your loan) will report your new account to the bureaus, giving you a score.
    - fnordpiglet 3y ago
      Additionally, while it may suck, and maybe there is some other emergent reality that sucks less, we practically live in this one. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.
judge2020 3y ago
Salary/compensation is not actually provided via your credit report to companies who perform a hard inquiry. If you look at your annualcreditreport, that's exactly the data the inquirer receives, and it just has your start date and company.
deleted 3y ago
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fulladder 3y ago
> 3. Your MONTHLY salary and combined comp per yer going back to 20XX when I came to the US. You work at a big company. Your employer is choosing to sell this information to credit bureaus. I first learned about this practice in the mid-2000s. Like you, I was quite surprised, but they didn't have any data on my own income or assets yet, and I resolved never to work for an employer that would engage in this type of business practice. I think employers should be legally required to disclose and obtain written consent to sell your income data, but beyond that point, it's really on you to decide what employment arrangements you are willing or unwilling to accept. It's sad that you had to find out this way given how easy it would be for these employers to just disclose it upfront. I'd recommend looking for a different employer.

fnordpiglet 3y ago

Yes, and no. I would note that they are definitely not alone and are much better scrutinized than the other data vendors you’ve never heard of that have much more detailed and person data about you. The credit agencies however offer you a real and valuable service. Without credit history it’s impossible to get credit. It’s also harder to get jobs and to rent. So while it’s creepy, at the very least you gain some demonstrable advantage and benefit. The data brokers and vendors however collect without your permission or knowledge, compile much deeper profiles of you as a human being and what you do and enjoy, along with these other details, and sell it for a profit you never get a share of. Perhaps one day we will have a functioning legislative branch and from it will come a real privacy bill. I’m hopeful it’ll be better informed than the EU ones by taking lessons learned. But I hope for a lot of stuff, like world peace and cures for cancer.

rileymat2 3y ago
“The credit agencies however offer you a real and valuable service. Without credit history it’s impossible to get credit.” I think I generally agree that this is a reasonable service, however the main reason you can’t get credit without a credit history is these services exist that can provide credit history to lenders. It is bizarre to think that loans would not exist without these services.
- judge2020 3y ago
  Loans did exist before credit, but it was almost always loans from friends/family or by providing a large down payment to the bank you wanted a loan from. You needed to be a known and upstanding member of the community to get a loan for anything substantial. And technically, you can get many loans today without a credit score. For example, there are bank statement mortgage loans, but they have caveats like: - you will go through manual underwriting and will likely need to show records of payment history on any existing debts, including utilities, insurance, rent, etc - They will likely need the contact information for each one of your previous debts to verify it manually - When they run a quote, you will typically be considered at the lowest credit score possible for that program - typically 620 for a conventional loan or 500 for FHA. This means you'll be getting the worst rate possible - You'll likely need a 20% down payment, depending on if any of the PMI automated underwriting systems even give you a quote with such a low "fake" credit score. The lender might ask for more of a down payment depending on their own risk assessment. - The lender (or whoever buys your loan) will report your new account to the bureaus, giving you a score.
  - fnordpiglet 3y ago
    Additionally, while it may suck, and maybe there is some other emergent reality that sucks less, we practically live in this one. Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.

judge2020 3y ago

Salary/compensation is not actually provided via your credit report to companies who perform a hard inquiry. If you look at your annualcreditreport, that's exactly the data the inquirer receives, and it just has your start date and company.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

fulladder 3y ago

> 3. Your MONTHLY salary and combined comp per yer going back to 20XX when I came to the US. You work at a big company. Your employer is choosing to sell this information to credit bureaus. I first learned about this practice in the mid-2000s. Like you, I was quite surprised, but they didn't have any data on my own income or assets yet, and I resolved never to work for an employer that would engage in this type of business practice. I think employers should be legally required to disclose and obtain written consent to sell your income data, but beyond that point, it's really on you to decide what employment arrangements you are willing or unwilling to accept. It's sad that you had to find out this way given how easy it would be for these employers to just disclose it upfront. I'd recommend looking for a different employer.